From Roast Penis to Realpolitik: A Wild Ride Through Identity & Immigration

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E Dogg: a great conversation.

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E Dogg: I’ll… I’m gonna tee us up with a great conversation starter, okay?

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E Dogg: Here it is. Are you ready?

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Kay: Hmm.

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E Dogg: I don’t think women should be able to vote.

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E Dogg: Okay, that was… that was ironic, just in case.

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Kay: You gotta let it sit there and simmer a little bit more than… you just… you saved yourself.

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E Dogg: Oh, let me try it again, let me try again.

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E Dogg: Let me try it again. Okay.

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E Dogg: The ruin of the American family, inflation, and the economy all comes from the same source.

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E Dogg: Feminism.

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Kay: What is it called? MSN what?

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E Dogg: MSN now?

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Kay: MSN now? MSN now. Okay, so we’re… we are doing MSN, yeah. We were just talking about, MSN now before this.

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E Dogg: I… MSN now, apparently, on YouTube is the channel that MSNBC used to be. I don’t, I watch all my TV on YouTube, or on my phone on Instagram, because…

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Kay: That’s.

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E Dogg: all I have time for nowadays.

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Kay: Wow.

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E Dogg: Wasn’t that good enough?

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Kay: Basically, just short attention span, you know, it sounds like you’.

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E Dogg: Well, it’s… I mean, I have a baby at home that requires constant attention, so you can’t just, like, put the baby in a pot in the closet somewhere and then go watch.

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Kay: Watch a good show, watch a good long, docuseries or something. I mean, you could try. Yeah.

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E Dogg: But it won’t work, the baby will eventually.

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Kay: Right, that’s true. How was baby life, by the way? Are you enjoying that? You, you, every time I talk to you, you’re, like, in some sort of emergency. What’s… what’s the big deal? I mean, it’s just a baby. That’s so true.

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E Dogg: Yeah, you know, it’s so funny, my…

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E Dogg: my transformation, my metamorphosis into a family man who is married and has… I have an older kid, right, 7.

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Kay: Yeah.

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E Dogg: years old, and then I have this baby who’s months old.

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E Dogg: you know, I still… my transformation into family life is still very fresh in my head.

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Kay: Hmm.

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E Dogg: Because my single life was very long, I’m in my mid-40s, And, you know.

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Kay: Wild, if I remember.

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E Dogg: I mean, I don’t know about wild, I had friends that were wild, but, a very long, single life, and…

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Kay: Okay.

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E Dogg: I mean, there’s a slight chance my wife might listen to this, so…

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Kay: Well, not that well. She’s wild enough to be fun.

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E Dogg: I’ve commented that she is a Latin woman.

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E Dogg: And that comes with a lot of amazing things from the Latin culture, which I…

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E Dogg: as a… I’m a child of immigrants, so I kind of do get… I’m… I’ve…

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E Dogg: I am part of the Latin culture.

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Kay: a little bit of a sheet.

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E Dogg: It’s really from there, so…

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Kay: Okay.

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E Dogg: She… she was… we were whispering horror stories to each other, and she said, what if you woke up in the middle of the night?

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E Dogg: You looked over, and you saw that I was eating something in the moonlight, and you can’t tell what it is.

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E Dogg: And then, as you get closer, she told me this, she’s, like, lying on top of me, as we’re just, like, it’s in the morning, the baby is handed off to the nanny.

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E Dogg: This is the only 10 minutes we actually have to talk to each other.

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Kay: Mmm.

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E Dogg: Before, we just, like, co-parent all day. And so it’s just, like, laying on me, and we’re, like, kind of, like, enjoying our personal time together.

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E Dogg: And then she goes, what would you do if you just saw me in the moonlight eating something? You didn’t know what it was, and you… you’re sleepy, so you don’t know what it is, and you kind of look closer, and as you’re looking at me, eating this strange thing in the moonlight, you’re… you reach instinctively to your midsection, and you realize that your penis.

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Kay: Oh, my gosh.

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E Dogg: And then you realize, in continued horror, that what I’m eating is your penis.

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Kay: Yeah.

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E Dogg: But without it being attached to you, which might be better.

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E Dogg: Right, and then I said, Oh, okay. And then she continued.

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Kay: She’s like…

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E Dogg: I had prepared it like it was a piece of roasted corn with mayonnaise and cheese.

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Kay: Man, you really gotta love.

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E Dogg: Nope.

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Kay: I mean, it sounds like my dog, who does eat a penis every couple days from a cow.

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Kay: So it’s not…

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E Dogg: Yeah, they sell those, they sell those, yeah, those, bull penises that you can just give to your dog. What an insane thing, by the way. Like…

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E Dogg: I don’t know, like, they have the bones and the hooves and all this other stuff.

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Kay: Yeah.

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E Dogg: I get that it’s a fairly convenient thing, but, like, I don’t know, man, what if your dog.

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Kay: You know what, I think of…

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Kay: Well, this is a very side conversation, but you know, they always would say, like, they would always be like, well, you know, the Native Americans never wasted anything. And I always think, well, neither does corporate America. I have to say, they’re quite similar. Like, there’s this amazing VIN diagram of…

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Kay: corporate America and the Native American kind of mindset of, like, let’s not waste anything. We can sell.

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E Dogg: Huge, huge amount of overlap. I mean, they were the original capitalists, really, if you think.

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Kay: Exactly.

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E Dogg: Actually, I mean, that’s what the book, right, The Jungle, of this.

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Kay: clear. Alright.

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E Dogg: when Abdus Leclerc wrote the book about the meat industry, it was supposed to disgust people, but it actually ended up being an ode to capitalism, because…

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E Dogg: they rendered… they would render the fat from the unused pieces of the animals and sell the tallow, which now is a huge thing in the hipster community, right? It’s tallow. Oh, you don’t have tallow, you can’t use pressed seed oils, because you’ll get autism, or whatever it is.

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E Dogg: Anyway… My wife is insane, which is.

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Kay: Yeah, I…

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E Dogg: that my single life was long, and I enjoyed it, as long as it existed, but.

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Kay: What did you say to her? Were you, turned on by that?

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E Dogg: It was… well, okay, those are two different questions. It was a propo…

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E Dogg: It was definitely out of nowhere, and yes, yes it did.

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Kay: Oh, good, alright. That’s the right… that’s the right answer. You’re supposed to… you’re supposed to remember that.

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E Dogg: we have. I mean, I knew what I was getting into. I’m not one of… you know, I wasn’t young when I got married.

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Kay: Fair enough.

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E Dogg: getting into. Right. So I hear that, and I’m kind of like, yep.

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Kay: Now, I did have a… yeah, this is a story, since I can say it with… pretty anonymously, that I had a girlfriend who was Latin as well, Latina.

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Kay: And, she…

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E Dogg: It’s a white way you say that, it’s, like, fun.

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Kay: Yeah, I know, right? Legend X.

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Kay: U.S.

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E Dogg: For your pleasure.

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Kay: he, quite…

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Kay: I don’t know if this would be consistent with the way you’re describing, like, Aladdin 1, but she said to me, I said, you know, one time, we were not having great sex. Sex was few and far between. It was getting kind of dry, the dry spell for us.

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Kay: Oh.

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E Dogg: How long have you been… how’d you… had you been together at this point?

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Kay: Maybe two… maybe a year and a half or two years. I think two years.

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E Dogg: That is way too soon, but…

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Kay: That’s very true, that was very soon. And it actually had happened earlier, it happened, like, a year… year after we got together, that she just, you know, I… she didn’t want to… didn’t feel like it, was not interested. Now, one time I say to her.

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E Dogg: Oh, Latin… Latin… but, like, American, though. Americanized, yeah. American raised. Yeah, exactly. Of Latin heritage.

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Kay: Absolutely, yeah, Mexican…

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E Dogg: So, I mean, okay, I will…

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Kay: She knows. And she said, And,

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Kay: She’s… well, she had told me once, I’m very jealous, right?

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Kay: When I first met her.

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E Dogg: Of course.

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Kay: She said, I’m very jealous. I think she even says something like, oh, you know, Latin women are very jealous. We’re… we’re very jealous. So I said, okay, well, I’m counting on that. So I’m counting on this factoid, and I kind of pull it back. I’m in the car with her, and I kind of, like, say, oh, that’s right, she’s supposed to be jealous. That’s what she told me. And I’m trying to threaten her into having…

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Kay: into getting… let’s have some more sex. I say to her, listen, if you don’t have sex with me, if you’re not interested, what if I just went and found somebody else? And she said, that’s amazing, that’s an amazing idea.

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Kay: Yes, you should! Sweetie, you should. Go find somebody else, and I just don’t want to know about it. Just go find… just don’t tell me. And I said, well, no, well, I mean, wait a second, I…

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E Dogg: she was secretly Japanese?

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Kay: Maybe. She said, go have fun, find somebody, I just don’t want to hear about it, and, you know, this will solve our problem, because you really want a lot more sex than I do, you’ll get what you need.

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Kay: Just don’t find anyone… what I really care about is that you’re not emotionally attached to this. Just find someone that you’re not emotionally attached to, have sex with them, don’t tell me, and it’s all good. And I thought, well, that didn’t work out very well. That kind of backfired, unfortunately, because I actually.

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E Dogg: Fire and miss.

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Kay: Yeah, I was really not interested… I was kind of lazy, I was like, I don’t really feel like this, to go find somebody, and I have to find, like, the right fit, someone who’s… how do I find someone I’m not emotionally…

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E Dogg: It’s so hard to do, even when you’re single.

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Kay: Yes.

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E Dogg: I mean… Come on!

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Kay: it was hard to do, and, you know, it was a time that made me realize it was not gonna work out. But, you know, I guess, what I would say is there’s always exceptions to every stereotype.

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E Dogg: Absolutely.

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Kay: right?

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E Dogg: Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. You know, there’s a… I mean, I… I don’t know, I once took a very short course on regional studies for Latin America.

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E Dogg: It was actually… it covered Venezuela and China. This is, like, maybe 10 years ago.

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Kay: That’s a… it’s a combo.

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E Dogg: And they… and they talked in there. I mean, you know, I’m not.

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Kay: You say Latin America and China?

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E Dogg: Yeah, it was because it was a bunch of people who were interested in writing about both these topics.

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Kay: Got it, got it, okay.

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E Dogg: And so they just kind of, like, squeezed together two teachers, one to talk about Venezuela, and just a southern cone of the U.S. in general, but based out of Venezuela, and then China. Which, it was, like, a really odd pairing, but they talked about

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E Dogg: you know, this idea of thin and thick culture, so…

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E Dogg: you know, if you talk about the American culture, there are thin and thick streams of culture that run through there, so you could make some generalizations about American culture, you know.

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E Dogg: And this happens all the time, we both lived overseas a lot.

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E Dogg: Americans are considered brash, they’re considered…

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E Dogg: to have poor social skills. They, you know, they show up somewhere and just want to get down to business. They don’t want to talk.

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E Dogg: Got it. They don’t want the social niceties.

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Kay: Right, right.

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E Dogg: They don’t… they’re not.

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Kay: They want to get to business. That’s true, they always say that with, like, Japanese business and Korean businesses.

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E Dogg: They’re not considered thoughtful gift givers.

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Kay: Right.

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E Dogg: you know, they’ll always want to go Dutch.

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E Dogg: Which is funny, because the Dutch actually have the same reputation of just getting straight to business. They’re not, you know… but then, that’s the thick culture. That’s like, okay, yeah, you can… you can… you can find a lot of Americans like that. The general… you know, the generalizations. American tourists dressed like children, they’re wearing.

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Kay: Like, they’.

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E Dogg: box and their shorts, t-shirt, a baseball cap, that’s how children dress in the rest of the world. And then here, I mean, you know, adults are walking around like that, and that’s… they don’t dress up for anything, they don’t know how to dress up.

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Kay: True.

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E Dogg: And so, that’s the general thing, right? But I know Americans who defy that. Absolutely. I’m an American, but maybe because I’m a son of immigrants, I do believe in social niceties, and I take a long time to start

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E Dogg: a meeting, even if it’s business, because to me, that’s, like, the nice bit, is getting to know a person. And you do have to have at least a little bit of a social relationship.

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E Dogg: before you can kind of move forward. It just makes business a lot smoother.

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E Dogg: And there’s this, you know, like, Americans are not known in a, you know, in an international office. They don’t say hello, they don’t say goodbye. And so, I make it a point, every time I show up to my office, I say hi to everyone, even though it’s just other Americans.

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E Dogg: I show up and I just, you know, I make a point of going to, you know, poking my head around the corner, and if I see that, you know, someone’s there, I say hi. So, yeah, I mean, there’s exceptions, right? So, in Latin culture, there are the things that most people have in common. Latin culture, generally speaking, depending on the country, is fairly conservative by American standards, socially, right?

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E Dogg: you know, evangelical Christianity is the fastest growing religion in Central America for.

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Kay: For example, wow.

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E Dogg: And there’s a lot of… a lot of conservative social mores in the thick culture.

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E Dogg: My wife is from Central America, but she is… she does not have that aspect, right? She does have other aspects that I think are quintessentially Latin and part of the culture, and in other ways, she does not participate in it. So, yeah, man, people are complex, and generalizations are a tool that you can use

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E Dogg: When you don’t… you don’t know the person. But as soon as you meet the person, then you gotta really hone in on who they are as a person. Right.

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E Dogg: dried up… American Latin girlfriend.

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E Dogg: I, you know, I’ll also say this, you know, I get the culture crisis that comes from being a third culture kid.

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E Dogg: Both of my parents were immigrants from Spanish-speaking countries, but very different Spanish-speaking countries.

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Kay: Yeah.

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E Dogg: And… I grew up in America, So, to me.

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E Dogg: I just feel like an American, but I’ve had…

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E Dogg: a lot of things in my life that are very Latin culture and very European culture that are not very American, and it’s funny to me because

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E Dogg: you know, I struggled… I struggled a lot with my identity in my Latin…

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E Dogg: Am I Spanish? You know, what am I?

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E Dogg: And the Latin community generally embraces its diaspora.

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Kay: The Spanish community…

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E Dogg: does not.

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E Dogg: if you are quote-unquote mixed race at all, if you’re Spanish and something else, Got it. Inferior, in quotes.

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Kay: Yeah.

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E Dogg: You’re not Spanish. Right, right. Like, if you were half Spanish and half

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E Dogg: like, Dutch or something, you might be Spanish. If you’re white.

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Kay: Sure, sure.

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E Dogg: you look white. If you don’t look white, then Spanish people are very remiss

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E Dogg: to say that you’re Spanish. So you could be half Spanish and half Dutch. You speak with a little bit of a Spanish accent, a Castilian accent in Spanish? Yeah, you’re Spanish. If you’re half Spanish and half Colombian.

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E Dogg: and you show up, oh man, they’re like, you’re not Spanish, right? It’s just very racial. I’m not judging it, it is just…

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E Dogg: the majority of Spanish people will just look at you, and then hear you, and then they’ll… they’ll determine if you’re Spanish.

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Kay: They judge you, yeah.

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E Dogg: as an American, it bothers me, right? There are plenty of Americans

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E Dogg: who think, a lot of them are in power, who think that you’re not American if you’re not white.

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E Dogg: Now, I’m not exaggerating, I mean, I am talking about white Christian nationalism, which is a real thing. And there are people with power now in the government

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E Dogg: very much embrace this idea. They’ve said things in speeches such as, your values don’t make you American, your heritage does.

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E Dogg: But when they say heritage, they’re not talking about

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E Dogg: your father, your grandfather. They’re talking about

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E Dogg: Are you from a white immigrant family that’s been here more than

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E Dogg: 150 years. Asterisk, they’re willing to make an exception.

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E Dogg: If… for political reasons. So there are very famous politicians who are whites and love the white nationalist Christian brand, but…

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E Dogg: whose family have very recently immigrated to the U.S.

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E Dogg: And so they get an exception because

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E Dogg: for white Christian nationalism to work, you have to really broaden the definition of white and Christian, or else you don’t have enough people to make the party worth it. You know, this is a very… I mean, this is just American history, right? In the 1920s, Italians and Irish were broadly brought into the white community.

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E Dogg: Because they didn’t have enough people.

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E Dogg: So they got recruited. So, you know, I’m still keeping my fingers crossed that the two countries my parents are from get drafted.

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Kay: Maybe one day.

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E Dogg: I mean, if I’m lucky, if I’m lucky.

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Kay: I think that… I think that’s…

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Kay: you know, I would say Spanish and Portuguese… I’ve thought about this, at least with the Portuguese perspective, which is…

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E Dogg: I don’t know, they speak, they speak a language that brown people speak, and that’s always kind of…

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E Dogg: That’s gonna ding you some points when you’re tallying up how white you are.

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Kay: But that’s the problem, is that if you… did you ever watch this show called Faulty Towers?

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Kay: No, I’ve heard of it. John Cleese, right? There’s a famous,

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Kay: not famous. There’s a character in that show, which is a hilarious show from the 80s or something, who’s a Spaniard.

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Kay: And…

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Kay: he’s… his name is Baz Larson, and he’s the joke of the show. He’s, like, the clown of the show. And the number, I mean, they were… they… you know, it’s a funny show, but it’s very offensive in the sense that, like, they’re basically like, get out of here, you Spaniard, you little Spaniard. You know, he’s short.

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Kay: Yeah. He’s very ethnic.

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E Dogg: Yeah, yeah, yeah!

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Kay: He’s not Latino. He’s not Latino.

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E Dogg: from…

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Kay: South America, I think South America, he’s… he is literally… he’s a Spaniard. And, by the way, one of the most attractive…

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Kay: tall dudes that I ever met was a Spaniard in Indianapolis when I lived there, and I was just like, do I even know what Spaniards look like? No, I don’t. This… my… my memory was this stupid show, which was very…

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Kay: demeaning. Now, they would do the same…

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Kay: the British would do the same, you could even see this in, Sherlock Holmes in the 1800s. They were written about the Italians in a way that’s…

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E Dogg: Marcus.

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Kay: Yeah, well, they were anarchists, yes, that’s true. But they were also… the way they… the way he flavors the story is exactly true and exactly offensive.

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Kay: A bunch of it, you know, they’re screaming at each other, they’re fighting, they’re… they’re anarchists, which basically means they’re terrorists, so it’s like the old word for a terrorist, basically.

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E Dogg: Yeah.

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Kay: They were blowing up shit, they were stealing.

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E Dogg: They don’t believe in government.

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Kay: Don’t believe in government, and so…

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Kay: I… my grandfather, who is Sicilian, and he was darker, and he was shorter,

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Kay: hated wasps. I mean, just hated his whole life. Like, you talk to him, he’s a guy, he worked at the DMV, he loved, you know, loved the government, loved being an American, called himself an American, sure, but you got him on the subject of white Anglo-Saxons.

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Kay: had a cow. He was just like, you know, so he felt very… he felt very oppressed by them. I don’t know if he was, but he felt slightly oppressed by them. And I… and I think that… so it’s not just the U.S. that has this problem, it’s also…

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Kay: the Northern Europeans, who see themselves, like the British, as superior to the Southerns, which I always… so I used to date another girlfriend of the… I always have a girlfriend story for this show.

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Kay: I think I told you this one, though. Remember, this was the one where I told you where I had this Dutch girlfriend? Well, she wasn’t even Dutch, she… I’m sorry, she was Danish, that’s how little I cared about her.

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E Dogg: Who knows?

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Kay: or which particular D country it came from. But she was Danish.

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Kay: in the sense that her parents had some Danish history, both of them, which I thought was interesting, but she had no connection to Denmark. And, I think I talked to you about this, where…

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Kay: Her father was… was, like.

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Kay: kind of upset, or, like, didn’t think I was good enough because I was Italian. Now, I’m like, by the way, one of my…

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E Dogg: They’re both Americans, which is funny to me.

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Kay: Right, I’m both Northern and southern, and actually, a good part of me is Danish, so it’s like I have the same heritage as her. He could have cared less about that. All he cared about was I had Italian in me, and it was like I… it was like a muggle blood or something. I’m like a…

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Kay: Like, ugh, and I… and I just remember…

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Kay: you know, talking to her about this, and explained to her, like, you know, fine, I’m sorry your dad feels this way, but by the way, my people conquered, you know, his people thousands of years ago, and taught him how to fucking read. But, you know, before that, they were basically in the jungle, killing each other and eating each other.

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Kay: With no written history. If you go and find… go to any museum in Europe and say, can you tell me what the Celtics’ language looked like?

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Kay: what did it look like? Where are these amazing scriptures? Oh, there are none, because they didn’t read, and they didn’t have a lot of civility, and so thanks to the dirty people of the South.

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Kay: he now, you know, knows how to use, you know, running water. You’re welcome. And so it was basically an interesting… I always felt it was very interesting that… where did this idea come from?

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E Dogg: Where does this?

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Kay: Or lesser than you.

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E Dogg: Especially Danes. Danes were known as the marauding, raping, stealing people.

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E Dogg: of Northern Europe. Literally, I mean, it’s… what was it? Red-eared Kipling talks about the Danegeld. They would show up.

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Kay: Mmm.

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E Dogg: And then extort you for money, or they would raid and pillage and rape.

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Kay: Amazing.

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E Dogg: you know, your town and everyone in it. And so they would show up, and they would ask you for gold, Gel.

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E Dogg: And, you know, the whole point of that Red Yard Kipling story is, if you pay them once, you’ll have to pay them forever.

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Kay: Yeah, just like the Mafia, sounds like.

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E Dogg: Exactly, and so, like, yeah, where do they get off? But, I mean, right, and now we get to the heart of the show, which is bashing the Celts.

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E Dogg: That’s…

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Kay: It’s my favorite, favorite topic.

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E Dogg: funny to me, right? Like, I thought, you know, just when I think about politics and race.

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E Dogg: In America. It’s just, I mean, I think these… these stories, the conversations.

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E Dogg: They’re just so interesting to me, because…

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E Dogg: These are all constructs, right? Race…

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E Dogg: No matter how many people try to tell you it’s.

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Kay: It’s it.

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E Dogg: It does not exist in the DNA.

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E Dogg: Yes, there’s mitochondria that have moved throughout the globe as human populations have moved.

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E Dogg: In mixed, there used to be other humans, and they successfully killed and,

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E Dogg: bonded with them to create the current race. There’s now only one type of human on the planet, which is kind of crazy if you think about it, because there used to be a bunch.

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E Dogg: So we know who the violent ones are.

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Kay: Yeah.

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E Dogg: To me, the conversations about race are funny, because there’s just, like, there’s no…

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E Dogg: you can’t look at someone’s DNA and tell them what race they are. You can look at the mitochondrial DNA, which.

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Kay: It comes from males, and then you can…

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E Dogg: you can go back and look at where that mitochondria eventually came from tens of thousands of years ago. But you just can’t…

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Kay: sequence DNA and be like, oh yeah, this is, you know… Right.

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E Dogg: This is a white German guy. You can’t do that, right? So, race is a constructed category. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t mean it’s meaningless. It’s incredibly meaningful.

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E Dogg: I mean, the US dollar is a constructed thing, and look how…

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E Dogg: what happens because of that. So, to me, this is interesting. These conversations about race and ethnicity and identity, especially in America.

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E Dogg: are just funny to me. When they get weaponized and politicized in order to…

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E Dogg: You know, conduct a political project.

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Kay: Like…

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E Dogg: like, it’s always happened, right? Whether it’s, you know, Black Power or Latin movements.

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E Dogg: the Asia, you know, Asian Pacific Islanders. That’s an identity that was created to get as big of a group.

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Kay: Logging.

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E Dogg: California as possible. And the only way to do that was to bind together these regions who kind of, like, don’t get along.

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E Dogg: The fact that you can bind Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Samoans into one lobbying group is insane.

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Kay: Interesting, yeah.

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E Dogg: But, you know, Asian Pacific Islanders, right? That’s an actual identity group. It’s not racial, it has racial elements, it has ethnic elements, but what do they all have in common, right? And so.

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E Dogg: people talking about what white culture is. What is white culture? All of that

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E Dogg: I mean, I love comedy, I’m a huge fan of comedy, so, like.

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E Dogg: race and ethnicity, for comedy’s sake, is pretty, I think, a rich and deep reserve that I think is pretty funny. But this concept of… you know, if you go to the East Coast.

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E Dogg: there’s all, you know, white people in the Northeast talk about ethnicity amongst other white people a lot.

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E Dogg: Like, and I’ve known Jewish people who talk about, like, well, you know, I’m not white, though I’m Jewish, and I kind of laugh at that a little bit, because to me, as a person who has, like, Latin descent, and who… people look at me, and they’re like, oh, you must be Latin.

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E Dogg: It’s just funny to me, because when I look at someone

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E Dogg: might be Jewish, I don’t know. To me, they’re just, like, a white person. But the Jewish identity that I’ve noticed a lot of people feel in America makes them think, like, well, I’m not white, I’m Jewish. And I’m kind of like, wow, this, like, how people identify and how people treat each other is just so fluid and weird, and has, like, zero basis.

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Kay: It’s very fluid.

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E Dogg: And anything that you could just, like, you know.

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E Dogg: science, you know, shows me this thing, and what does it even mean to be Jewish? What does it mean to be white? You know, and then what you just said about this, like, she has a strong Danish heritage, I mean, what does that even mean? How connected are you… How strong is it now?

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Kay: Week as well.

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E Dogg: Right? And that her father…

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Kay: Yeah.

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E Dogg: sort of said, like, oh, you’re an Italian, but in what regard are you… I mean, what is he afraid of?

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Kay: Exactly.

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E Dogg: Is this an old story of, you know, southern Italian coming to the U.S?

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E Dogg: coming to the U.S, and, you know, the mafia being.

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Kay: It’s a joke.

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E Dogg: southern Italy. Is it fear of that?

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Kay: You know, the closest one was there was a good… S…

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Kay: was it Robert De Niro had a movie in the 90s about an Italian boy meeting, like, a black girl, and they got together. It’s kind of a Romeo and Juliet movie, and I remember he directed it or something like that, I think, or… I know he was in it, he was, like, the father…

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Kay: That, I could see being pretty real. Like, there’s some real… there’s some racial differences, there’s some skin color differences.

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Kay: cultural differences, everything, and he wanted to explore that topic. I think it was a cool movie.

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Kay: And… and so I give that credit, but yeah, the idea… but there are people who will… and I used to know a bunch of these at college, I guess, that would be, you know, maybe they would be,

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Kay: even less physically look different than a white person, and those people would often be the most aggressive about how different they were. Oh my god, I’m… of course I’m not this, I’m… I’m this identity, and they would, like, beat everybody up about it, and it was like, you know.

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Kay: you really… it’s like, just for that person, it may have been like, I need to be special, I need to be somebody, and this is my way of being somebody, versus I’ve actually have been… have gone through a lot of…

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Kay: Of, old-fashioned discrimination

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Kay: of the kind that I’m talking about constantly. Now, there… that doesn’t mean there aren’t real things people are going through, and so, I completely agree, I think it’s up to everybody. But there… there are people who are…

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Kay: always going to be fascinated by this topic. I think I just talked to my friend the other day, who’s very good at history.

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Kay: and we were talking about Santa Claus, and I said, oh, you know, I didn’t remember that Santa Claus was, you know, from Turkey. And he’s like, yeah, yeah, that’s right, he’s from Turkey. And I said…

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Kay: So, you know, what, you know, something about, like, what would he have said to this or that, and I was like, well, how do you say that in Turkish? He’s like.

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Kay: he didn’t speak Turkish, he spoke Greek, because guess what? Turkey was part of Greece back then, that’s what… and I was like, oh… it was just like, oh, that’s right, this whole Turkish…

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Kay: the whole Turkish cultural and identity

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Kay: back then, you rewind the clock, there really wasn’t much of it there. It came about later on. And now there’s an identity around that, it’s a very strong identity. It includes, you know, a fair amount of Islam, maybe some Christianity, but a strong dominant aspect of Islam, and then influence from

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Kay: from probably Arabic culture, due to the rise of Islam there, and then you mix that with some European, and Greek, and you got this whole new cultural identity, and again, I’m thinking, like, oh, that’s right, before that, Santa Claus was just a Greek guy. So,

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Kay: these things change, right? They change so much, and

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Kay: And we like to get attached to all this stuff. But that said, with regard to the Europeans’ attitude towards the South.

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Kay: It’s complicated, it’s, it is… I think it matches here, what you’re saying. I think there’s a white attitude towards it here, and I think it’s reflected also there. And then, like you’re saying, even in places like Italy and Spain, they have their own…

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E Dogg: Oh, yeah, man.

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Kay: towards… you know, it’s like, it never ends. Like, no one can be… everyone’s… everyone who’s depressed has to oppress others, or whatever. Yeah. So, anyway…

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E Dogg: Yeah, I mean, I remember there was a… there was a speech by,

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E Dogg: a high-level official that’s responsible for foreign policy in the State Department.

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Kay: Who said… gave a speech in front of this, like.

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E Dogg: business chamber in the U.S.

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E Dogg: It might have been in Detroit, and I think he said something like, America is not an idea.

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E Dogg: America is a country with real people, you know.

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E Dogg: that have needs that we need to address. And, and… the…

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E Dogg: The… the message there was, those real people that are in this country, it’s not a country of ideas.

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E Dogg: you know, this concept of America as a beacon on the hill brings in immigrants from all over the world to participate in the idea of what is America. Both him and J.D. Vance have been very…

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Kay: Interesting.

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E Dogg: vocal about this in their speeches on policy, which are economic policy, which is

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E Dogg: we need to make America work for Americans.

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Kay: And then you hear that, and you’re like, yeah, okay, I’m an American, but that’s not what they think.

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E Dogg: They have a specific description of who is American, and being an American citizen is not what they’re talking about.

329
00:29:55.510 –> 00:29:56.220
Kay: Oh, I don’t know.

330
00:29:56.220 –> 00:30:00.010
E Dogg: Because they said, like, America is not values, it’s not an idea.

331
00:30:00.800 –> 00:30:04.499
E Dogg: it’s a real place with American people who, you know.

332
00:30:04.670 –> 00:30:12.909
E Dogg: are basically been screwed by the system, and they’re talking about white people. And then J.D. Vance says, right, is America, you know.

333
00:30:13.160 –> 00:30:16.950
E Dogg: You’re an American by heritage, not by values.

334
00:30:17.500 –> 00:30:30.189
E Dogg: And it’s funny to me, and I’m like, well, why can’t I be both? Why can’t… like, you know, I… by the way, I mean, I’m the son… like I mentioned before, being the son of immigrants, I think… I think no one appreciates

335
00:30:30.490 –> 00:30:41.450
E Dogg: American values and what America means more than the children of immigrants, maybe immigrants themselves. There are exceptions, right? Like, to say immigrant doesn’t mean that it’s a good thing.

336
00:30:41.450 –> 00:30:44.180
Kay: I have a friend that was Russian who could have cared less about

337
00:30:44.320 –> 00:30:47.209
Kay: the values of America. He became a citizen.

338
00:30:47.210 –> 00:30:50.229
E Dogg: And so, yeah, no, it’s just funny to me, right? Because it’s like…

339
00:30:50.910 –> 00:31:10.019
E Dogg: There’s this weird concept I run into sometimes in popular culture, and I think it’s, yeah, mostly attributable to the left, of, like, brown people are good and white people are bad, which is, like, a weird… right? Like, it’s just, like, a weird concept that gets applied to the strangest things, to the, you know, to the Israeli-Palestinian…

340
00:31:10.270 –> 00:31:23.940
E Dogg: situation. I’ve even heard people say that you can’t call it a conflict, because a conflict has two sides, and it doesn’t have two sides. It’s just very politicized language in this space about identity, and about just,

341
00:31:24.640 –> 00:31:27.049
E Dogg: The very long history of human violence.

342
00:31:27.240 –> 00:31:29.369
E Dogg: On the thinnest of pretexts.

343
00:31:29.720 –> 00:31:30.120
Kay: Hmm.

344
00:31:30.430 –> 00:31:36.159
E Dogg: But no, I mean, I think about this all the time, about what does it mean to be an American?

345
00:31:36.350 –> 00:31:38.620
E Dogg: And… I…

346
00:31:38.720 –> 00:31:47.950
E Dogg: I know people who don’t think we have an immigration problem. And I’m like, well, but there’s, you know, there’s, like, massive illegal immigration, it’s real, you know? I covered it a little bit in Central America.

347
00:31:48.290 –> 00:31:50.910
E Dogg: I’ve seen it firsthand in American cities.

348
00:31:51.260 –> 00:31:57.280
E Dogg: And since my wife is Latin of Latin origin, she’s on a lot of social media.

349
00:31:57.360 –> 00:32:13.169
E Dogg: of people who immigrated to the U.S. illegally, and they post stuff like, you know, we recently had a baby, and, you know, I had to fight the insurance company to make sure they cover the things they’re supposed to cover in our relatively expensive health insurance.

350
00:32:13.170 –> 00:32:13.780
Kay: True.

351
00:32:13.780 –> 00:32:21.660
E Dogg: And you have people who immigrated illegally from Venezuela and Central America on their social media feeds.

352
00:32:21.700 –> 00:32:22.950
Kay: Saying…

353
00:32:22.990 –> 00:32:42.229
E Dogg: you know, they’re in the… they’re in the hospital suite, and they’re saying, like, you know, giving tips to other legal immigrants on how to not pay for your birth. Right. How to not pay for your hospital coverage. They say, well, first of all, like, don’t tell them you’re married. Tell them that you don’t work, and you… and a lot of these people already had a kid.

354
00:32:42.550 –> 00:32:56.419
E Dogg: And so you get government benefits. And if you say that you’re married, and your husband is working as a carpenter, working construction, and your husband makes $60,000 a year, including overtime and all this money he gets under the table.

355
00:32:56.610 –> 00:33:15.519
E Dogg: If you say that, they won’t cover your hospital bill, they’ll bill you, so don’t say it. Say that you’re not married, say you don’t have a job. Also, when you’re at the hospital room, take as many things as you can with you, and then apply for food benefits, SNAP benefits. And it’s funny, because it’s like, they don’t need it.

356
00:33:15.720 –> 00:33:16.350
E Dogg: They’re just…

357
00:33:16.350 –> 00:33:16.820
Kay: I was digging in.

358
00:33:16.820 –> 00:33:24.090
E Dogg: of this system, the people who posted this stuff, right? And this is anecdotal, right? Like, there’s a handful of accounts

359
00:33:24.280 –> 00:33:40.149
E Dogg: And they’re very popular, because there’s a lot of immigrants who want to come to the United States, they don’t care how they get there, and they have this image, and I’ve seen it in the little rural towns in Mexico and Guatemala. People have this image that if they just can make it to the U.S, they are successful.

360
00:33:40.310 –> 00:33:45.589
E Dogg: And that they will find a job, make money, send it back to their country of origin.

361
00:33:45.590 –> 00:34:00.910
E Dogg: send it back to their family members, and be a hero, and build these huge houses in these tiny little towns, and then come back and flash the money they have, flash the fact that they buy American brand name apparel. I’ve seen it, and to me.

362
00:34:01.030 –> 00:34:06.049
E Dogg: As an American, my parents immigrated legally. I grew up in the States.

363
00:34:06.510 –> 00:34:21.700
E Dogg: to me, it’s disgusting, right? Because, like, those are the stories that feed into narratives that immigrants are, like, you know, all Latin people are immigrated illegally, and that they’re a drain on society.

364
00:34:21.790 –> 00:34:28.819
E Dogg: And when I hear people respond to that by saying, like, no, immigrants are good for this country, blah blah blah, I’m like, dude, it’s both, don’t you get it?

365
00:34:28.820 –> 00:34:30.120
Kay: Like, I…

366
00:34:30.120 –> 00:34:37.450
E Dogg: I was in Guatemala covering politics when the Biden administration approved temporary protective status for Venezuelans.

367
00:34:37.600 –> 00:34:40.869
E Dogg: And the White House, according to the reporting at the time.

368
00:34:41.030 –> 00:34:45.530
E Dogg: That I covered. At the time, the White House had not talked to any.

369
00:34:45.530 –> 00:34:46.190
Kay: B,

370
00:34:46.199 –> 00:34:47.699
E Dogg: he oversees…

371
00:34:47.709 –> 00:34:56.979
E Dogg: diplomatic missions in Central America about this plan they had, and they just unveiled it overnight. This is this great idea they had. They’re like, 400,000 Venezuelans.

372
00:34:56.979 –> 00:35:08.139
E Dogg: If you have family members that can support and sponsor you, you can come to the United States. We’ll give you… right? And it’s a very legal, narrow definition of what TPS is.

373
00:35:08.139 –> 00:35:18.529
E Dogg: And who can apply for it. But all these Venezuelan diaspora immigrants living throughout Latin America, all they really heard was, Venezuelans can come here, and we got you.

374
00:35:18.530 –> 00:35:20.270
Kay: Mmm, okay, interesting.

375
00:35:20.270 –> 00:35:23.409
E Dogg: So what the Coyote networks do in Latin America.

376
00:35:23.590 –> 00:35:24.160
Kay: That’s a.

377
00:35:24.160 –> 00:35:27.989
E Dogg: business. Their business is to smuggle humans into the United States.

378
00:35:28.050 –> 00:35:33.159
E Dogg: So, they get this posting from the White House that says.

379
00:35:33.160 –> 00:35:48.909
E Dogg: Venezuelan immigrants can come in. There’s a lot of fine details. You have to have a family member in the United States legally that will sponsor you. You have to apply for temporary protected status from outside the United States using that CPB1 app that the Biden administration created.

380
00:35:48.910 –> 00:35:49.390
Kay: Okay.

381
00:35:49.390 –> 00:35:57.500
E Dogg: And you can apply at these immigration centers throughout Latin America. That way, you don’t show up to our doorstep. It was their way

382
00:35:57.650 –> 00:36:01.099
E Dogg: Of trying to keep the immigrants from showing up on the southern border.

383
00:36:01.310 –> 00:36:15.530
E Dogg: by pushing out the application process digitally and creating these immigrant centers throughout Latin America. That was the intent, but the execution was terrible. They just announced it overnight, didn’t coordinate with the interagency and the government.

384
00:36:15.700 –> 00:36:20.740
E Dogg: And I was in Guatemala, Weeks later, Tons of Venezuelans showed up.

385
00:36:21.250 –> 00:36:32.420
E Dogg: And then they showed up at the southern border, they showed up in Guatemala, and they were like, hey, Biden says they can come in and they’ll give me $500,000 in cash. It was, like, some weird things that coyotes told them.

386
00:36:32.420 –> 00:36:33.520
Kay: Oh, interesting.

387
00:36:33.520 –> 00:36:36.050
E Dogg: to sell the idea of bringing… he’s like, I don’t know.

388
00:36:36.050 –> 00:36:36.430
Kay: yearly.

389
00:36:36.430 –> 00:36:36.930
E Dogg: angle.

390
00:36:37.240 –> 00:36:38.299
Kay: Legal Man, you can eat?

391
00:36:38.300 –> 00:36:43.140
E Dogg: you give me 10,000 bucks, and I will take you to the U.S. southern border, and they have to take you, because, like.

392
00:36:43.460 –> 00:36:58.000
E Dogg: has posted. And they just lie, right? Coyotes lie about the process, about what they can do, and they train, sometimes, immigrants on, like, ask for asylum. Say you’re Venezuelan, don’t say you’re married, you know, all these things that they…

393
00:36:58.000 –> 00:37:04.210
E Dogg: say to take advantage of our very bureaucratic immigration and refugee and asylum system.

394
00:37:04.570 –> 00:37:08.129
E Dogg: And it just… it provoked this massive Venezuelan.

395
00:37:08.130 –> 00:37:08.490
Kay: Right.

396
00:37:08.490 –> 00:37:16.810
E Dogg: And when they got to the US, on their social media feeds, a lot of people were talking about, look at the shitty hotel they gave us. Look, they gave us the same people every day.

397
00:37:17.070 –> 00:37:25.060
E Dogg: You know, and it’s funny to me, because, you know, all the… interestingly enough, all these other illegal immigrants from Central America and Mexico who had come to the U.S. to work

398
00:37:25.500 –> 00:37:26.069
E Dogg: And, and.

399
00:37:26.070 –> 00:37:26.540
Kay: They live.

400
00:37:26.540 –> 00:37:37.460
E Dogg: to an apartment, they worked 3 jobs. They saw these immigrants, these new immigrants, and they thought, like, why don’t you just work? And they thought they were better than everyone else, because they had come under this temporary.

401
00:37:37.460 –> 00:37:38.380
Kay: Protected Status Program.

402
00:37:38.880 –> 00:37:44.219
E Dogg: It was a debacle, and it was sloppy, and being the son of immigrants and knowing other immigrants.

403
00:37:44.740 –> 00:37:52.809
E Dogg: it… it was a little infuriating, actually, to see that… to see that they felt so, entitled.

404
00:37:53.080 –> 00:37:53.500
Kay: Right.

405
00:37:53.500 –> 00:38:04.529
E Dogg: And I suspect a lot of people feel that way about illegal immigration, period. Anyone who comes illegally, even if it’s to work, even if it contributes to the consumer economy.

406
00:38:04.610 –> 00:38:13.700
E Dogg: Even if it contributes as an input into production that makes businesses run at a lower cost, and then makes their products lower cost, for example.

407
00:38:14.450 –> 00:38:16.979
E Dogg: You know, renovating your kitchen.

408
00:38:17.110 –> 00:38:22.580
E Dogg: The whole cost just went down by about $5,000 because of this second-class illegal immigrant labor.

409
00:38:22.790 –> 00:38:25.900
E Dogg: I know plenty of people Who are more than happy to take advantage of that.

410
00:38:26.140 –> 00:38:27.340
E Dogg: And so…

411
00:38:27.560 –> 00:38:34.250
E Dogg: It, you know, to me, this… the racial story, the ethnic story, we just talked about, identity, how complex it is.

412
00:38:34.350 –> 00:38:47.699
E Dogg: I think that same… the way… same way it’s handled, if you look at this immigrant story, which is just one of many things, what does it mean to be American, and what benefit do immigrants, illegal, legal, give to the United States?

413
00:38:47.700 –> 00:38:48.350
Kay: Yeah.

414
00:38:48.520 –> 00:38:55.120
E Dogg: This is a very complex thing, man. And to put it in the context of our show, if I can just bring it home for a moment…

415
00:38:55.790 –> 00:39:01.340
E Dogg: just the conversations we have, I think the reasons that the conversations we have

416
00:39:02.660 –> 00:39:10.260
E Dogg: are… are worth listening to. It’s because out there in the real world, there’s an ecosystem of…

417
00:39:10.420 –> 00:39:17.500
E Dogg: people getting paid to create rage. And the political system is designed, is incentivized to polarize people.

418
00:39:17.780 –> 00:39:29.640
E Dogg: You know, so-called Republicans, so-called Democrats, because that label gets put on very easily. Oh, if you’re liberal, you’re a Democrat. Well, the Democratic Party is a party, it’s an institution, it’s a political entity.

419
00:39:30.550 –> 00:39:37.520
E Dogg: that fights for its survival and its relevance, and so does the Republican Party. Just because you might vote Republican doesn’t mean you’re a Republican.

420
00:39:37.820 –> 00:39:47.940
E Dogg: Because their platform changes according to what they need to survive in this world, right? So, it is completely… they are incentivized to create polarization, because there’s only two parties.

421
00:39:48.300 –> 00:39:55.789
E Dogg: And so it drives us apart, it makes the conversations on these topics, like immigration, pretty simple and pretty ignorant.

422
00:39:55.950 –> 00:40:01.299
E Dogg: The real conversation about identity, about race, about immigration, there are real problems here.

423
00:40:01.550 –> 00:40:06.840
E Dogg: But I know people who are so swept up with, I think, the liberal, polarized discourse.

424
00:40:06.880 –> 00:40:07.530
Kay: immigration.

425
00:40:07.530 –> 00:40:20.019
E Dogg: No, all immigrants are good. It’s like, no, that is not true. Right. And I’ve had people even tell me, like, there is no immigration problem. And I’m like, well, you don’t think massive, uncontrolled immigration into the United States

426
00:40:20.380 –> 00:40:27.279
E Dogg: From all over the world, by the way, back, I mean, what, 4 years ago? Yeah. There were planes coming from Libya, landing in Honduras.

427
00:40:27.620 –> 00:40:28.700
Kay: they had…

428
00:40:30.280 –> 00:40:32.060
E Dogg: Africans, Chinese.

429
00:40:32.060 –> 00:40:32.450
Kay: Yeah.

430
00:40:32.450 –> 00:40:43.179
E Dogg: Immigrants from all over the world are looking for the easiest entry point. Right. Latin American immigrants are just, like, walking thousands of miles to be able to come into the United States. Yeah, absolutely.

431
00:40:43.360 –> 00:40:51.540
E Dogg: And… and the beacon… The image, the narrative, even if it’s not true, the narrative of uncontrolled

432
00:40:51.740 –> 00:40:57.380
E Dogg: migration into the United States, and immigrants wildly benefiting from jobs and sending the money.

433
00:40:57.380 –> 00:40:58.000
Kay: Good luck.

434
00:40:58.000 –> 00:41:04.440
E Dogg: and an open immigration system. That claim, that narrative, as false as it might be.

435
00:41:04.910 –> 00:41:09.409
E Dogg: draws immigrants to their peril, and to the peril of the United States economy.

436
00:41:09.530 –> 00:41:20.229
E Dogg: And it just… it just sucked people in. And I can see it. I’ve seen it in the countries of origin. People only think about immigrating to the United States as soon as they can. As soon as they turn 14, 15.

437
00:41:20.510 –> 00:41:21.560
Kay: They want to go to New York.

438
00:41:21.560 –> 00:41:25.429
E Dogg: That’s what being successful is. It’s like if you grew up in a poor neighborhood.

439
00:41:25.760 –> 00:41:39.009
E Dogg: maybe selling drugs or sports, or whatever easiest form of making money and having the esteem of the people around you, you are drawn to that, even though it’s an unrealistic narrative. How many people can actually play professional sports? How many people…

440
00:41:39.190 –> 00:41:43.050
E Dogg: can sell drugs without getting killed or arrested. It’s very few.

441
00:41:43.090 –> 00:41:56.879
Kay: It’s a very powerful, you know, in that sense, it’s a very powerful brand that the US has, and it does attract people. Now, I don’t know if you heard much about the Somali daycare center situation, whatever.

442
00:41:56.880 –> 00:42:16.380
E Dogg: I understand there was a… there’s a massive fraud operation based on, I think, COVID-related funds in Minnesota, and I understand that to some extent, some of the perpetrators were, from the Somali community. I didn’t know if they were immigrants or sons of immigrants.

443
00:42:16.410 –> 00:42:21.190
E Dogg: But I know there was one specific… I mean, I know this because I read the Fox News website every day.

444
00:42:21.400 –> 00:42:26.780
E Dogg: I wouldn’t have known this, by the way, if I only read CNN, or the New York Times.

445
00:42:26.780 –> 00:42:27.140
Kay: views.

446
00:42:27.140 –> 00:42:33.550
E Dogg: No, because they don’t mention the Somalis, because that’s racist, which is an insane thing. Just mention it, like…

447
00:42:33.550 –> 00:42:35.510
Kay: And I have someone just, you know, I will…

448
00:42:35.510 –> 00:42:36.690
E Dogg: Majors are stupid.

449
00:42:36.690 –> 00:42:44.210
Kay: I will, throw in that I was… when I read this story, and it came across my… I read Yahoo, because it’s kind of like…

450
00:42:44.480 –> 00:42:46.570
Kay: I don’t know what it is.

451
00:42:46.570 –> 00:42:47.769
E Dogg: No one… no one gets…

452
00:42:47.770 –> 00:42:50.230
Kay: Who cares about it, yeah. They don’t have anything.

453
00:42:50.230 –> 00:42:53.700
E Dogg: They’re not selling anything, because they don’t sell anything.

454
00:42:53.700 –> 00:43:04.209
Kay: I see, actually, a fair amount of CNN and Fox on there, so… Anyway, it said this guy, this kid had gone over there, he was doing a video, a viral video, I was like, okay. My first thought was.

455
00:43:04.440 –> 00:43:08.049
Kay: Well, this kid came during Christmas break.

456
00:43:08.190 –> 00:43:18.879
Kay: Or just after school, he clearly was trying to set these people up. So I was just like, somehow I get on this… I clicked from the Yahoo news article the Twitter… Oh, yeah, from the.

457
00:43:18.880 –> 00:43:21.889
E Dogg: Conservative, conservative activist blogger, what’s his face?

458
00:43:21.890 –> 00:43:22.680
Kay: I don’t know what’s.

459
00:43:22.680 –> 00:43:24.830
E Dogg: But I… I click on his…

460
00:43:24.830 –> 00:43:25.600
Kay: Yeah, go ahead, sorry.

461
00:43:25.600 –> 00:43:26.680
E Dogg: popular, yeah.

462
00:43:26.680 –> 00:43:30.179
Kay: Yeah, it was very popular. So I clicked on the video out of curiosity, I had no idea what this was.

463
00:43:30.830 –> 00:43:38.870
Kay: within 5 minutes, I was like, fuck! This is bullshit! This… this is not… clearly, he’s… he’s onto something, like, they were going…

464
00:43:39.070 –> 00:43:41.900
Kay: In the… they would go into a neighborhood.

465
00:43:41.900 –> 00:43:42.370
E Dogg: Yep.

466
00:43:42.370 –> 00:43:46.849
Kay: Very industrial neighborhood, there’s boarded-up office buildings that say daycare.

467
00:43:46.850 –> 00:43:47.440
E Dogg: there.

468
00:43:47.850 –> 00:43:57.159
Kay: And they knock on the door, these people are confused as, like, they have no children there, and this is, like, a Monday or Tuesday, and it’s supposed to be before Christmas break.

469
00:43:57.160 –> 00:44:08.679
Kay: But even if it was… even if it was on Christmas break, he literally talks to people in the neighborhood. He’s like, have you ever seen a child in this neighborhood? They’re like, are you kidding me? This is not a place that you have childcare, that you would never put a childcare

470
00:44:08.680 –> 00:44:20.479
Kay: here in this neighborhood, and no, I’ve been here 8 years, I’ve never seen a single child going in and out of that building. So it’s clearly he’s on to something that there is a fraud going on. Right. And I’m thinking, like, so then…

471
00:44:20.810 –> 00:44:26.650
Kay: I’m thinking, damn, this is… this is pretty significant. I just thought to myself, This reminds me…

472
00:44:27.430 –> 00:44:44.380
Kay: again, not to go back… to go to my beloved Italian history, but it does remind me of how my… again, my grandfather hated the mafia. Not just the mafia, the Italian mafia, hated Sicilian mafia, like… like, hated them with the guns. If there was anyone who disavowed

473
00:44:44.630 –> 00:44:49.689
Kay: the Italian Mafia. It was my Italian grandfather who couldn’t stay in them. He moved to…

474
00:44:49.690 –> 00:44:50.120
E Dogg: Yeah.

475
00:44:50.120 –> 00:44:51.390
Kay: With his family moved…

476
00:44:51.390 –> 00:44:52.740
E Dogg: Exactly.

477
00:44:52.740 –> 00:44:54.699
Kay: Exactly, it made them look bad, and he knew it.

478
00:44:55.240 –> 00:45:00.480
Kay: And he didn’t like looking like a dirty, greasy Italian that was gonna rip you off, and he couldn’t stand out.

479
00:45:00.480 –> 00:45:01.640
E Dogg: It gives you a bad, yeah, it gives a bad.

480
00:45:01.640 –> 00:45:17.869
Kay: So, he would be the one saying, yeah, they’re terrible. And, and he… They moved away from New York and Chicago because of that. They didn’t like Chicago or New York because that’s where the mafia was, and they wanted to… they were already trying to get away from the mafia in Sicily, they didn’t want to move anywhere near it.

481
00:45:17.870 –> 00:45:21.030
E Dogg: They weren’t the only ones moving away from those places because of too many Italians.

482
00:45:21.030 –> 00:45:31.059
Kay: Yeah, that’s true. Very true. So anyway, they moved along to the, to California. So, anyway, I just was… I was thinking about this, and I was like, and I think,

483
00:45:31.290 –> 00:45:34.710
Kay: My guess is that it’s the same idea. It’s like…

484
00:45:34.820 –> 00:45:50.850
Kay: if you’re in the Somali community, you’re looking at this, and you’re probably thinking, maybe you’ve heard about it. I’m sure you’re not shocked by this, because you… like, the Italians, the ones who were not committing crimes, they knew very well that their brethren were committing crimes, and screwing people over like crazy.

485
00:45:50.880 –> 00:46:05.189
Kay: And and so they… they hated it. And so my guess is that the Somali community… I was like, I really feel bad for most of the Somali community that… that has to deal with this… this branding now. What was interesting, though, was you had these kind of random people

486
00:46:05.770 –> 00:46:13.280
Kay: try to make their own viral videos on the left, and they would go up, and one I saw was kind of funny to me, because it was literally a guy, and he’s like.

487
00:46:13.540 –> 00:46:22.670
Kay: on the streets, as if he’s gonna go into one of these centers. He’s literally in front of one, and he’s like… or, like, near one, and he’s like, you know, this guy made a viral video.

488
00:46:22.690 –> 00:46:39.519
Kay: And we looked through all the records from the state, and there were no problems. And so you’re kind of waiting, like, okay, yeah, so show us, you know, go into the… and he’s like, that’s all I got, and thanks a lot. I’m like, well, you didn’t even show up? You didn’t even knock on the door? Like, you’re saying that this guy’s… you’re discrediting this guy.

489
00:46:39.520 –> 00:46:44.699
Kay: Who knocked on doors, and you’re gonna, like, you’re gonna go through the state records with… which clearly are…

490
00:46:44.710 –> 00:46:58.120
Kay: full of bullshit. And then you’re gonna say that there’s no problem here, and I was just like, what is it about this kind of knee-jerk reaction to be like, no, no, no, there’s no problem here, no problem, it’s all, you know, it’s all hatred, it’s all… and I was like, no, I mean, there was… there was genuine…

491
00:46:58.120 –> 00:47:05.830
E Dogg: Yeah, they were quick to brand him a racist, and by the way, he… I mean, he might be, I don’t know, but if… He might absolutely make a good point.

492
00:47:06.030 –> 00:47:21.580
Kay: If you make a good point, you make a good point. Yeah, I mean, I watched a few of these, and I was like, yeah, there’s clearly some fraud going on. Now, again, if I… if I… if you were to go back in the day and show up at every deli that was Italian, and, you know, there were probably 1 out of every 20

493
00:47:21.580 –> 00:47:38.719
Kay: that were money… laundering money, and they were… and they were full of… they were phonies. You could go to all… you know, you could go to every one of those, make a documentary, and show how the whole Italian community is a bunch of crooks. Actually, they’re probably more… knowing them, there were probably a lot more than 1 out of 20. It probably was a little higher. But anyway…

494
00:47:39.630 –> 00:47:51.230
Kay: The point is, you could make a case that these are rotten, dirty scoundrels, and you would be mostly wrong because you… that’s usually not how it works. It’s usually that it’s the bad apples.

495
00:47:51.230 –> 00:48:01.349
Kay: But there were some… certainly there were some problems there, and, you know, you didn’t have to be a bright Einstein to know that they were destroying

496
00:48:01.350 –> 00:48:14.950
Kay: democracy back in the day, and Chicago, and New York, all these places were completely screwed over and run. There’s so much corruption, and it was a big problem. And it’s amazing that it finally ended, to some degree, you know?

497
00:48:15.360 –> 00:48:26.399
E Dogg: To some degree. Yeah, no, no, you know, to me, man, I read a CNN article about this guy, because I seen him on Fox News, and Fox News covered… you know, the Fox News website now has, like, a tab for every.

498
00:48:26.400 –> 00:48:27.840
Kay: The story they’re following that they present.

499
00:48:27.840 –> 00:48:28.550
E Dogg: to track.

500
00:48:28.550 –> 00:48:28.960
Kay: Got it.

501
00:48:28.960 –> 00:48:31.009
E Dogg: And they started charging for some articles, which was…

502
00:48:31.010 –> 00:48:31.540
Kay: Oh, boy.

503
00:48:31.540 –> 00:48:34.940
E Dogg: That’s one of my favorite things about the Fox News website, is you can just read the whole thing.

504
00:48:34.940 –> 00:48:35.690
Kay: Right, right.

505
00:48:36.130 –> 00:48:37.530
E Dogg: Probably why they’re so popular.

506
00:48:37.650 –> 00:48:40.000
E Dogg: Well, anyway…

507
00:48:40.470 –> 00:48:49.350
E Dogg: I remember, you know, and they talked about his video, and they’re like, yeah, I mean, he knocked on all these doors, there was no one there. And then I looked at the CNN article, and they said, like, well…

508
00:48:49.490 –> 00:49:00.379
E Dogg: it was right before the Christmas break, and… you know, there is no indication that they are not… that they are fraudulent, and it’s like, well…

509
00:49:01.000 –> 00:49:06.590
E Dogg: So, obviously, there is something there. I mean, so the Department of Justice… I mean, this was investigated before the Trump administration, right?

510
00:49:06.590 –> 00:49:07.340
Kay: Exactly, yeah.

511
00:49:07.340 –> 00:49:21.989
E Dogg: So saying it’s political, to me, is kind of like, okay, that’s cover. Also, why would you cover… like, we as Americans should hate this kind of fraud. Those are our… those are our tax dollars. We should hate fraud and corruption no matter where it comes from.

512
00:49:22.340 –> 00:49:31.609
E Dogg: And the left, not wanting to vilify people who are of a minority ethnicity or race, I get it.

513
00:49:31.610 –> 00:49:37.260
Kay: I get it, I really do get it. It’s like… You don’t want to, you don’t want to go far, you know, guessing.

514
00:49:37.260 –> 00:49:47.939
E Dogg: When there’s… when there’s an attack or a murder, I think a lot of, a lot of, kind of, like, either mainstream or left-leaning… I don’t actually think CNN is left-leaning, they’re just not right-leaning.

515
00:49:48.080 –> 00:49:49.050
Kay: Yeah.

516
00:49:49.270 –> 00:49:51.019
E Dogg: I… I think they are…

517
00:49:52.000 –> 00:50:06.700
E Dogg: they’re hesitant to mention the person’s ethnicity or nation of origin. I, on the other hand, want to know that right away. And it’s not like… I’m not, you know, like, okay, for what those National Guard members in Washington, D.C.

518
00:50:07.170 –> 00:50:10.590
E Dogg: And it turned out he was an Afghan, immigrant.

519
00:50:11.080 –> 00:50:22.959
E Dogg: you know, the reason people don’t want to mention he’s an Afghan immigrant right away on those mainstream sites like CNN, New York Times, is because of what happened, is now no Afghan immigrant can get in a visa, and it’s like, well, that’s not the answer either.

520
00:50:22.960 –> 00:50:23.790
Kay: No, right.

521
00:50:23.790 –> 00:50:30.669
E Dogg: You’re acting like he was trained in a camp in Afghanistan and then got sent here to do that 5 years later.

522
00:50:30.840 –> 00:50:34.849
E Dogg: I mean, no, I mean, and that’s not common sense. And I think…

523
00:50:35.160 –> 00:50:44.549
E Dogg: you know, there’s been a lot of, kind of, like, conservative right-leaning voices saying, like, well, we gotta do something about this. You know, one… you know, and if you say, like, well.

524
00:50:44.840 –> 00:50:53.039
E Dogg: people… people get murdered, people get attacked, if it’s an illegal immigrant who did it, right? And you say, well… but, I mean, the illegal immigrant

525
00:50:53.390 –> 00:50:55.180
E Dogg: Kind of, as a population.

526
00:50:55.370 –> 00:51:02.820
E Dogg: commits less violent crime, then they say, well, first of all, they’re all criminals because they can be married illegally. Second of all, one death is too much.

527
00:51:03.670 –> 00:51:06.330
E Dogg: Which I think, okay, I understand that point.

528
00:51:06.330 –> 00:51:08.740
Kay: I mean, it is too much, but it’s too much for.

529
00:51:08.740 –> 00:51:24.380
E Dogg: I really do, but then when you talk about gun violence, you’re like, well, we could have prevented that mass shooting with, like, very strict gun control, because, you know, one death is too much, right? You said one death is too much. No, no, no, no, no, no. The principle of the Second Amendment is so important, it’s worth innocent people dying.

530
00:51:24.980 –> 00:51:33.440
E Dogg: Literally, I mean, that’s the… and by the way, I don’t… and I don’t really have a… I don’t have a problem with that argument. I think it is a valid argument for some of the time.

531
00:51:33.720 –> 00:51:40.930
E Dogg: Just like, for example, if you… if you think people should be able to get abortions, even if you want to limit it, right, to the 6th or 7th month.

532
00:51:41.280 –> 00:51:46.420
E Dogg: you have to admit, you know, I mean, Louis C.K. has a great bit about this, right? He’s like.

533
00:51:46.640 –> 00:51:49.649
E Dogg: Louis C.K. said that he’s pro-abortion.

534
00:51:49.760 –> 00:51:59.550
E Dogg: But please, I mean, admit that you are killing something, right? Like, you’re not… you’re not doing nothing, so, like, either… either you think it’s okay

535
00:51:59.990 –> 00:52:02.830
E Dogg: to basically kill whatever that thing is. Is it a human?

536
00:52:02.830 –> 00:52:04.289
Kay: I mean, you can debate that a.

537
00:52:04.290 –> 00:52:09.000
E Dogg: day, right? Right. But, like, you are ending a potential for a life

538
00:52:09.130 –> 00:52:17.779
E Dogg: best-case scenario, you have to admit that. But the… if you’re pro-abortion, the answer is, and that’s okay, because of this other thing.

539
00:52:17.980 –> 00:52:31.830
E Dogg: If you think there should be no gun control, and then we should all be able to carry weapons, and you know that gun violence, innocent people will die as a result of that, and you say, well, that’s okay, because of this other concept that is so important.

540
00:52:31.930 –> 00:52:42.629
E Dogg: And if you say, well, hey, let’s not… let’s never let another Afghan immigrant into the U.S, because we don’t want anyone to get killed like those National Guard members did, well, you’re going to…

541
00:52:43.020 –> 00:52:54.350
E Dogg: it’s… you’re not actually going to prevent the violence, and you’re going to prevent a lot of people from coming here that might have a lot to contribute, and also maybe don’t we owe them, because they helped us in that war in Afghanistan?

542
00:52:54.350 –> 00:52:55.250
Kay: Absolutely.

543
00:52:55.250 –> 00:53:03.580
E Dogg: And then you say, well, yeah, yeah, those are all true, but it’s worth it if no other Afghan ever… right? So, we make all these bargains.

544
00:53:03.580 –> 00:53:04.360
Kay: We make these bargains.

545
00:53:04.360 –> 00:53:04.810
E Dogg: All the time.

546
00:53:04.810 –> 00:53:05.290
Kay: in…

547
00:53:05.290 –> 00:53:11.759
E Dogg: About, like, innocent people dying, bad things happening to completely innocent people, in exchange for something we think

548
00:53:11.900 –> 00:53:14.249
E Dogg: Is an important principle, right?

549
00:53:14.250 –> 00:53:14.760
Kay: Right.

550
00:53:14.760 –> 00:53:18.060
E Dogg: So, to me, it’s kind of funny, you know.

551
00:53:18.800 –> 00:53:26.090
E Dogg: tying this back to the immigration thing, it’s just, like, another conversation that you cannot have on a reasonable basis, because if someone says, like.

552
00:53:26.520 –> 00:53:30.270
E Dogg: Well, yeah, innocent people died, but that doesn’t mean you…

553
00:53:30.550 –> 00:53:35.750
E Dogg: it doesn’t mean you just stop all Afghan immigration. No, no, no! One death is too much, how dare you? And it’s like, well…

554
00:53:36.540 –> 00:53:47.379
E Dogg: Find that reasonable compromise that you have about guns, and bring it to this conversation. Or, how about someone who’s very liberal, and is okay with abortion ending a potential for a life, or a.

555
00:53:47.380 –> 00:53:47.710
Kay: Right.

556
00:53:47.710 –> 00:53:54.620
E Dogg: depending on your point of view, why don’t you bring that sense of compromise of, like, hey man, sometimes rights outweigh these potential negatives.

557
00:53:54.780 –> 00:54:00.219
E Dogg: why don’t you bring that reasonableness into this gun conversation, and maybe we can all just find this middle ground. We actually…

558
00:54:00.630 –> 00:54:05.189
E Dogg: It turns out, it doesn’t matter if you’re liberal or conservative, you’re okay with people dying.

559
00:54:05.490 –> 00:54:07.140
Kay: If it’s… if it’s for the…

560
00:54:07.140 –> 00:54:09.340
E Dogg: Anything that you think is more important than.

561
00:54:09.340 –> 00:54:09.740
Kay: Excellent.

562
00:54:09.740 –> 00:54:10.290
E Dogg: self.

563
00:54:10.290 –> 00:54:10.990
Kay: Yeah.

564
00:54:10.990 –> 00:54:17.810
E Dogg: And this isn’t a new concept, right? Who is it? Who is it that said that, I would rather let a hundred guilty men go if

565
00:54:18.160 –> 00:54:21.009
E Dogg: we don’t lock up one innocent man. I think that was Thomas Jefferson.

566
00:54:21.010 –> 00:54:21.960
Kay: Okay.

567
00:54:21.960 –> 00:54:24.410
E Dogg: Don’t, you know, Google me.

568
00:54:24.410 –> 00:54:25.779
Kay: I will butt to dinner.

569
00:54:25.840 –> 00:54:28.859
E Dogg: But to me, I just wish our political discourse

570
00:54:29.190 –> 00:54:33.290
E Dogg: On immigration, on race, on identity.

571
00:54:33.600 –> 00:54:37.330
E Dogg: just wasn’t so polarized, because I think most of us

572
00:54:37.610 –> 00:54:41.830
E Dogg: are able to take almost any view, depending on what the conversation is. And it’s not.

573
00:54:41.830 –> 00:54:42.250
Kay: Yeah.

574
00:54:42.250 –> 00:54:43.830
E Dogg: And it’s very tribal.

575
00:54:44.010 –> 00:54:53.269
E Dogg: And, I mean, you know, I think there’s a lot of really great things that the MAGA movement has brought this country. It is… the MAGA movement has brought a focus in this country that we did not have.

576
00:54:53.900 –> 00:55:01.450
E Dogg: On taking care of people who were born here, Maybe their heritage spans back…

577
00:55:01.810 –> 00:55:11.610
E Dogg: you know, 100 years ago, 200 years ago, you know, don’t those people also deserve to be a part of an economy that works? And haven’t politicians of every stripe

578
00:55:11.740 –> 00:55:16.480
E Dogg: sold the American worker upstream. I mean, sold the American worker

579
00:55:16.610 –> 00:55:18.380
E Dogg: Out in order to make money.

580
00:55:18.550 –> 00:55:19.570
E Dogg: I mean…

581
00:55:19.570 –> 00:55:20.590
Kay: Yeah, and I…

582
00:55:20.590 –> 00:55:21.330
E Dogg: And that’s not partisan.

583
00:55:21.330 –> 00:55:21.760
Kay: That’s a good question.

584
00:55:21.760 –> 00:55:22.160
E Dogg: That’s not real.

585
00:55:22.160 –> 00:55:29.440
Kay: Yeah. No, it’s not. And I think it… I think, what I think, of course, is that it…

586
00:55:31.140 –> 00:55:33.799
Kay: It’s not that the left doesn’t agree with that.

587
00:55:33.970 –> 00:55:42.469
Kay: The left just assumes that… the left always assumes, though, and has been operating from the assumption over the past 50-some-so years.

588
00:55:43.150 –> 00:55:55.090
Kay: and is very strongly still, I think, attached to this idea, though at least the ones that I remember closely as I was, you know, this is, again, 15, 20 years ago, maybe, is that, of course.

589
00:55:56.760 –> 00:56:15.849
Kay: everybody deserves that chance, but of course, folks of European or Caucasian, whatever you want to say, already have that. It’s already sealed for them. And in the… I would say a lot of times in the communities that they’re living, that is what they see. That’s what the left sees. It’s, you know, they’re… so if you go to the…

590
00:56:15.890 –> 00:56:24.799
Kay: If you go to the coasts, if you’re in Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, whatever, Boston, what are you gonna see? You’re gonna see highly educated white people a lot of times.

591
00:56:25.410 –> 00:56:28.059
Kay: You’re not gonna see as many,

592
00:56:28.220 –> 00:56:44.920
Kay: lowly educated white people, at least not in the fancier, wealthier areas, they’re just not able to survive that, or live in those places, and also a lot of immigrant communities, and so very cultural. So you’re seeing a mix of affluent white people a lot of times, mixed with,

593
00:56:44.920 –> 00:56:53.770
Kay: a lot of… a lot of, diversity and a lot of, non-white communities. And so if you’re a non-white… you’re in a non-white community, you’re gonna see

594
00:56:53.910 –> 00:57:07.830
Kay: oh, well, look at this guy, he’s driving a nice car, all this stuff. So you’re gonna see, well, of course they have all that. They have what I want. It’s when you go to places that, again, when I went to live in Indianapolis, this is when I started to see, or Texas even, I started to see a different picture, which was, wow, I see…

595
00:57:07.860 –> 00:57:15.609
Kay: Poor immigrant communities and poor white communities. Whoa, what’s that? And there are parts of California and New York that do have those. Kern County? Yes.

596
00:57:15.610 –> 00:57:16.489
E Dogg: I mean, Jesus, man.

597
00:57:16.490 –> 00:57:17.330
Kay: Just, buddy.

598
00:57:17.330 –> 00:57:18.110
E Dogg: Bakersfield.

599
00:57:18.110 –> 00:57:18.930
Kay: Exactly.

600
00:57:19.270 –> 00:57:24.950
Kay: If you’re in LA, you’re too proud to go to such areas. You don’t, you know, you’re only going there to get to the.

601
00:57:24.950 –> 00:57:31.040
E Dogg: I mean, go to… go to the Inland Empire. I mean, you know, you used to spend a lot of time in.

602
00:57:31.040 –> 00:57:32.390
Kay: Riverside.

603
00:57:32.560 –> 00:57:50.930
E Dogg: Plenty of poor white people there. Absolutely. Plenty of poor white people in Downey. Yeah. In, what’s it? Carson? Carson. Sure. Carson City. I mean, a bellflower. I mean, yeah, I think, I think, I think sometimes people who live in non-white communities.

604
00:57:51.080 –> 00:57:56.240
E Dogg: aren’t exposed enough to poor white people. Dude,

605
00:57:56.520 –> 00:57:59.910
E Dogg: I don’t know, in LA, 3 out of 5 homeless people I saw were white.

606
00:57:59.910 –> 00:58:09.359
Kay: Yeah, oh yeah, and that’s that. So it’s almost like a… there’s a blindness to it, and… Yeah, there’s a blindness. Never in a conversation about diversity, about classism, let’s say, and maybe classism and race.

607
00:58:09.990 –> 00:58:16.160
Kay: did I hear someone say, well, what about all the white people that are homeless? Because it was like, well, you guys are just… that’s just dumb, or whatever.

608
00:58:16.160 –> 00:58:32.090
E Dogg: But they have their white… that’s why that conversation about white privilege, I think, irks so many white conservatives, because they’re like, well, where is that guy’s white privilege? And so, I mean, that’s not the concept. The concept is, okay, what would you rather be, a white homeless guy or a black homeless guy?

609
00:58:32.090 –> 00:58:33.110
Kay: Right, well there you go.

610
00:58:33.110 –> 00:58:34.080
E Dogg: Oh!

611
00:58:34.080 –> 00:58:35.200
Kay: They both suck.

612
00:58:35.200 –> 00:58:42.850
E Dogg: Slightly better, slightly better for the white homeless guy, because you probably will not get shot. Probably, maybe, I don’t know. Very, very lucky. Depends where you live.

613
00:58:43.100 –> 00:58:54.179
Kay: Yeah, and you might, you know, and so I would say it’s… but that is really, you know, it’s not much of a contest. I mean, like you say, it’s not exactly a contest I’d like to be a part of, so I think, I think this stuff…

614
00:58:54.180 –> 00:58:58.240
E Dogg: It’s also not empathetic to white people who are struggling economically.

615
00:58:58.240 –> 00:58:58.809
Kay: Right, right.

616
00:58:59.060 –> 00:59:15.720
E Dogg: to avoid privilege. It’s like, okay, that’s a comment designed to further the divide. Yeah. That is not a comment designed around empathy. That is not a comment designed to find common ground. And that’s the problem. My problem is, like, my issue is a process issue. My issue is…

617
00:59:15.840 –> 00:59:18.459
E Dogg: The conversations we have about these topics

618
00:59:18.860 –> 00:59:28.649
E Dogg: are designed to create polarization. So, I mean, if, you know, I was recently watching the PBS NewsHour, there’s, like, this little analysis section with these two commentators. There’s supposed to be one from the left, one from the right.

619
00:59:28.650 –> 00:59:29.210
Kay: Okay.

620
00:59:29.210 –> 00:59:36.870
E Dogg: and it was right before Thanksgiving, and the moderator says, well, you know, what do you think about advice for people going to Thanksgiving who might

621
00:59:36.940 –> 00:59:51.949
E Dogg: have to, you know, spend time with people who don’t agree with themselves politically. And the first one was at the right-leaning kind of… he’s not MAGA, but he’s very, you know, right-leaning commentator. This is still PBS, right? So the two people have to be, like, fairly center. The right-leaning guy says.

622
00:59:51.950 –> 01:00:07.660
E Dogg: Well, you know, I think it is time… and he’s speaking as a conservative who obviously is not MAGA, and he’s… in his brain, he’s thinking about, oh, you’re at Thanksgiving with MAGA people, people who are conspir… like, conspiracy theorists, or whatever. I really feel like that’s where he came from. He’s like, well.

623
01:00:07.960 –> 01:00:11.499
E Dogg: You know, you should be open to listening, and maybe…

624
01:00:11.730 –> 01:00:22.700
E Dogg: Maybe the conversation could be fruitful, you could find out more about the other side by listening, and actively listening, and not listening to prove them wrong, but listening to understand them.

625
01:00:22.990 –> 01:00:26.840
E Dogg: You know, if you wanna… if you think they’re wrong, if you wanna prove them wrong, I mean, fine.

626
01:00:26.840 –> 01:00:27.590
Kay: Go ahead.

627
01:00:27.590 –> 01:00:31.159
E Dogg: First, you must understand what they’re truly trying to tell you.

628
01:00:31.160 –> 01:00:31.720
Kay: Yeah.

629
01:00:31.870 –> 01:00:38.000
E Dogg: And that’s what I would say is the best thing to do in these circumstances. Well, the left-leaning guy was like, nope!

630
01:00:38.080 –> 01:00:39.920
Kay: Fight! Fight!

631
01:00:39.920 –> 01:00:45.390
E Dogg: fight, fight, fight as much as you can. And he’s coming from the perspective of… Oh…

632
01:00:45.540 –> 01:00:50.819
E Dogg: I’m a left-leaning person who is a person of color, My viewpoint has been repressed.

633
01:00:50.820 –> 01:00:52.129
Kay: Got it, yep, yep.

634
01:00:52.130 –> 01:00:57.660
E Dogg: MAGA people think I’m wrong, and you have to make your voice known, you have to make your voice.

635
01:00:57.660 –> 01:00:58.040
Kay: I mean…

636
01:00:58.270 –> 01:00:58.909
E Dogg: And this is…

637
01:00:58.910 –> 01:01:00.170
Kay: I see both sides.

638
01:01:00.170 –> 01:01:05.879
E Dogg: this was… this was the Tea Parties thing, right? Wasn’t that… wasn’t that a quaint movement when you think about it, the Tea Party?

639
01:01:05.990 –> 01:01:15.409
E Dogg: under Obama. Right. My conservative, grassroots, capitalist economy message has been repressed.

640
01:01:15.550 –> 01:01:18.400
E Dogg: Right, right. By the dominant liberal left.

641
01:01:18.400 –> 01:01:18.860
Kay: and…

642
01:01:18.860 –> 01:01:32.650
E Dogg: who dominates everything. Everything’s politically correct. You can’t celebrate Christmas. You can’t say, you know, anything. You can’t say Black people are articulate. We’re being repressed right now, and we’re gonna have our Tea Party movement, because we’re tired of being repressed.

643
01:01:32.960 –> 01:01:38.909
E Dogg: fight, fight, fight. Well, now it’s this love-leaning guy who’s like, no, no, fight, fight, fight. And it’s funny, right? Because that’s…

644
01:01:39.380 –> 01:01:48.739
E Dogg: to me, it was so funny, because I just thought to myself, like, yeah, I mean, I guess the question should have been better asked, because the question is.

645
01:01:49.040 –> 01:01:50.599
E Dogg: What do you want?

646
01:01:50.950 –> 01:01:54.750
E Dogg: What do you want out of this interaction with a person who disagrees with you?

647
01:01:54.960 –> 01:02:01.369
E Dogg: If you are a MAGA person, and you have this cousin who’s, like, a liberal lefty, because he’s young, he doesn’t know any better.

648
01:02:02.100 –> 01:02:08.050
E Dogg: Or it’s your, you know, it’s your daughter’s boyfriend who’s a liberal loon, like…

649
01:02:08.180 –> 01:02:21.429
E Dogg: okay, and now you’re having Thanksgiving dinner together. What are you… what are you trying to get out of the interaction? Now, do you feel repressed that your voice is unheard? Are you angry inside, and you want to demonstrate that you matter?

650
01:02:21.650 –> 01:02:26.829
E Dogg: Making other people angry, and creating a fight? Oh, okay, then you should listen to that, you should.

651
01:02:26.830 –> 01:02:27.540
Kay: Just to the.

652
01:02:27.540 –> 01:02:28.800
E Dogg: commentator who said.

653
01:02:29.010 –> 01:02:33.550
E Dogg: Express yourself, let yourself be known. That’s the only way they’re gonna hear your voices, is if you put it out there.

654
01:02:33.550 –> 01:02:34.429
Kay: True, hmm.

655
01:02:34.430 –> 01:02:35.989
E Dogg: Yeah, I mean, fine, but…

656
01:02:36.080 –> 01:02:38.310
Kay: you will get what you want. Yeah.

657
01:02:38.310 –> 01:02:42.060
E Dogg: But you’re… what you want is Discord. So if you want Discord…

658
01:02:42.060 –> 01:02:42.560
Kay: Yeah.

659
01:02:42.730 –> 01:02:46.339
E Dogg: congratulations, you’ve created it. I mean, and I really do mean that, I mean, like…

660
01:02:46.340 –> 01:02:50.730
Kay: This, you know, this goes even back to… the…

661
01:02:50.880 –> 01:02:56.900
Kay: philosophy that was debated quite a lot in the African American community in the 70s and 60s.

662
01:02:57.650 –> 01:02:59.629
Kay: Between, like, Martin Luther King and…

663
01:02:59.630 –> 01:03:00.050
E Dogg: Yeah.

664
01:03:00.050 –> 01:03:06.259
Kay: And Malcolm X. And, I mean, it’s as old as time. These topics are as old as time, really. I, I, you know.

665
01:03:06.260 –> 01:03:21.770
E Dogg: Exactly. It’s… I mean, any… in a sheer power struggle, if you are part of a community fighting for political relevance and power, the tools available to you are the same as they always are, right?

666
01:03:21.770 –> 01:03:22.330
Kay: Right.

667
01:03:22.330 –> 01:03:36.859
E Dogg: the context for that debate, it changes over time in the context, right? But to me, it’s like, it’s funny, because my inclination, because, I mean, I make a fairly comfortable living. I’m not losing from this economy yet.

668
01:03:36.990 –> 01:03:41.290
E Dogg: Right? The moment… the moment I do, I will probably be willing.

669
01:03:41.290 –> 01:03:41.690
Kay: Sure.

670
01:03:41.690 –> 01:03:45.089
E Dogg: Absolutely. So, to me, it’s like…

671
01:03:45.860 –> 01:03:50.090
E Dogg: my… when I thought… when I heard that question on Thanksgiving, how do people handle this?

672
01:03:50.240 –> 01:03:53.859
E Dogg: the first thing I thought was, wow, actually, when I… and I know plenty of people who

673
01:03:54.110 –> 01:04:05.970
E Dogg: who are part of the market movement, and I know apparently people who are young university people who have the most insane belief I’ve ever heard in my entire life in this, like, crazy left-leaning, hypersensitive identity politics kind of place.

674
01:04:07.310 –> 01:04:09.979
E Dogg: I think to myself, like, wow, that’s an opportunity

675
01:04:10.190 –> 01:04:22.200
E Dogg: and it’s hard to do, that’s why I think I really like this idea, is, yeah, truly hear them. Don’t hear them to disagree with them. Don’t hear them so you can put them into a bucket.

676
01:04:22.300 –> 01:04:26.720
E Dogg: Truly… and try to read into what they’re saying. Ask questions. Ask…

677
01:04:27.110 –> 01:04:36.109
E Dogg: Because the first thing they say will be a part of this national, polarized discourse, because that’s what people are used to. They’re used to defending their position.

678
01:04:36.110 –> 01:04:39.369
Kay: Okay, but get past that, get past that, get to the core.

679
01:04:39.370 –> 01:04:51.539
E Dogg: what does this person actually believe in? What do they actually feel about these things? Why do they feel about those things? Because people might have extreme political views driven by something they have lived.

680
01:04:51.750 –> 01:04:55.239
E Dogg: And you, you know, it’s funny, my wife.

681
01:04:55.670 –> 01:05:03.739
E Dogg: she doesn’t make a lot of political commentary on her social media. All she did was post… she reposted a New York Times

682
01:05:04.010 –> 01:05:09.659
E Dogg: posts, where it’s the president giving his briefing about the arrest of Nicolas Maduro.

683
01:05:09.660 –> 01:05:10.180
Kay: Right.

684
01:05:10.180 –> 01:05:14.840
E Dogg: And it’s a New York Times headline that quoted the president during his briefing that said.

685
01:05:14.990 –> 01:05:18.509
E Dogg: In quotes, the US will run Venezuela.

686
01:05:18.510 –> 01:05:18.910
Kay: Yes.

687
01:05:18.910 –> 01:05:20.619
E Dogg: And salads boil for some time.

688
01:05:20.620 –> 01:05:21.410
Kay: No.

689
01:05:22.070 –> 01:05:25.419
E Dogg: And that’s all it was. It was a quote, it was a New York Times repost.

690
01:05:25.810 –> 01:05:32.790
E Dogg: And, my wife has, amongst her followers, a Venezuelan woman, living overseas.

691
01:05:33.450 –> 01:05:43.680
E Dogg: Very successful. Her husband, she does not work. Her husband works in the oil business around the world. Used to work in the Venezuelan oil business, actually, so he’s probably connected to the regime somehow.

692
01:05:43.940 –> 01:05:59.229
E Dogg: She blew up on my wife. She’s like, how dare you say these ignorant, stupid things? You have never had to wait in a long line for toilet paper. You’ve never had to wait to be able to eat. By the way, for context, they have a ton of money, and she’s super fat.

693
01:05:59.340 –> 01:06:02.299
E Dogg: You know, and if he were.

694
01:06:02.300 –> 01:06:03.620
Kay: Another of us.

695
01:06:04.090 –> 01:06:14.800
E Dogg: If he worked for PDVSA, which is the National Venezuelan oil company that was nationalized by Chavez, and, you know, to be in there, you have to at least be okay with the regime, right?

696
01:06:14.930 –> 01:06:19.169
E Dogg: And if you… and if you’re making money to this day on…

697
01:06:20.250 –> 01:06:26.959
E Dogg: business from there, you’re at least okay with the government, right? Like, it’s Vichy France, best case scenario. Anyway…

698
01:06:27.420 –> 01:06:33.740
E Dogg: So she just rails on my wife. She’s like, it’s a good thing he’s gone, and you’re criticizing the United States

699
01:06:34.220 –> 01:06:46.130
E Dogg: You criticize the United States, and they’ve done an amazing thing, and they’ve liberated us, and you hate it, because you don’t get it. You’re ignorant, you’re ignorant, you shouldn’t comment on ignorant things that you don’t know about. Got it. And also funny, you know, my wife.

700
01:06:46.130 –> 01:06:48.999
Kay: So your wife only… she didn’t actually say anything, right?

701
01:06:49.000 –> 01:06:50.020
E Dogg: She didn’t say anything.

702
01:06:50.020 –> 01:06:52.199
Kay: We just posted the actual comment.

703
01:06:52.200 –> 01:06:58.690
E Dogg: Even the New York Times posting just quoted the president. Now, could they have added context? Probably. They could have added the context of.

704
01:06:58.990 –> 01:07:11.230
E Dogg: you know, we want a fair and just transition, and we will do this until such time as there is a fair and just transition. Okay, that’s interesting context, because besides saying that the United States would run Venezuela and sell its oil.

705
01:07:11.720 –> 01:07:24.939
E Dogg: They also said, we’re gonna wait, you know, we’re only gonna do that until there’s a fair and just transition. But that’s a fairly significant thing for the most powerful person in the world and the most powerful country in the world, to say. To say, we are running this country now.

706
01:07:25.050 –> 01:07:25.810
E Dogg: because it…

707
01:07:25.810 –> 01:07:26.959
Kay: We’re gonna run it.

708
01:07:26.960 –> 01:07:31.689
E Dogg: in what way? With… with what… with what administration?

709
01:07:31.810 –> 01:07:36.829
E Dogg: you know, at least in Iraq, there was a plan, right? There was, you know.

710
01:07:36.830 –> 01:07:39.129
Kay: Not a good one, but there was one.

711
01:07:39.130 –> 01:07:58.720
E Dogg: There was a plan! And they had a provisional government, and they had someone in charge on day one, right? And so, here, we have no… the only assets in Venezuela are the ones used to remove Maduro, right? You have the… according to press reports, you have the CIA, and and that’s it. I mean, we don’t have an embassy there.

712
01:07:58.830 –> 01:08:06.650
E Dogg: And so, to me, it’s a no… it’s a newsworthy item. Also, if you are a fan of the move.

713
01:08:06.800 –> 01:08:11.460
E Dogg: if you’re a fan of the president, or if you’re a fan… if you’re part of the MAGA movement.

714
01:08:11.720 –> 01:08:20.400
E Dogg: Oh, so the MAGA movement is a little bit different. They’re, you know, they’re anti-war and anti-intervention, so it’d be interesting to see how my friends in that movement kind of respond to this.

715
01:08:20.520 –> 01:08:23.330
E Dogg: But, because there’s different camps, I mean, people are complex.

716
01:08:23.439 –> 01:08:26.850
E Dogg: The MAGA movement, actually, is a very large movement…

717
01:08:27.399 –> 01:08:30.700
E Dogg: with so many different people in there, with so many different opinions. It’s actually quite…

718
01:08:31.120 –> 01:08:44.780
E Dogg: interesting, the variety of things. But, to me, it’s like, I could imagine that headline being supportive, because it’s like, yeah, he removed a terrible dictator, and now the U.S. is going to bring some much-needed stability.

719
01:08:45.200 –> 01:08:48.689
E Dogg: And by the way, I mean, US companies

720
01:08:48.720 –> 01:09:03.140
E Dogg: have contracts, they have agreements on oil fields in the Caribbean and the north of Venezuela, that were cut off and not honored by the previous regime. There is a legitimate complaint there from U.S. oil companies.

721
01:09:03.140 –> 01:09:11.639
E Dogg: being able to recoup their investment. They’ve invested money in oil exploration in the Caribbean. So, to me, I don’t think there’s anything

722
01:09:11.660 –> 01:09:24.090
E Dogg: particularly partisan or hateful about that… posting that quote from the president. Well, anyway, this Venezuelan person railed on her, and I thought that was so interesting, because I saw that, and I’m like, and I told my wife, my wife showed me, and I said, you know.

723
01:09:24.330 –> 01:09:43.120
E Dogg: this is probably a very sensitive topic for her. She has a lot of things going on within her. She probably feels like a traitor for being outside of her country. She probably feels like a traitor for living so well, while so many of her people suffer. She’s probably very happy to see Maduro go. She doesn’t care how it happened. I probably wouldn’t have cared either, right? If I was a Venezuelan, I don’t care how you get him out.

724
01:09:43.310 –> 01:09:45.130
E Dogg: So, like.

725
01:09:45.680 –> 01:09:52.929
E Dogg: I said, just trying to be empathetic, I can kind of see why she reacted. She didn’t… it has nothing to do with you.

726
01:09:53.450 –> 01:09:53.910
Kay: reacting.

727
01:09:53.910 –> 01:09:58.570
E Dogg: into a situation, and she doesn’t understand it. She doesn’t understand that you’re not her enemy.

728
01:09:58.680 –> 01:10:04.149
E Dogg: But it’s… it’s convenient and cathartic for her to make you her enemy, even though

729
01:10:04.490 –> 01:10:10.669
E Dogg: I mean, we know her. We’ve hung out with her. Oh, really? We were on… I thought we were on a… we were friends.

730
01:10:11.140 –> 01:10:12.530
Kay: acquaintances, maybe.

731
01:10:12.750 –> 01:10:22.010
E Dogg: But… and I thought, am I… and I’m like, yeah, she used to use a lightning rod, which is not nice, and you’re perfectly in your rights to draw your boundaries and say, hey, friend.

732
01:10:22.010 –> 01:10:22.410
Kay: True.

733
01:10:22.410 –> 01:10:25.989
E Dogg: I’m not your enemy. I’m not your enemy. I reposted a piece of news.

734
01:10:26.520 –> 01:10:32.249
E Dogg: I actually… it’s interesting, because you’ve reacted to something I posted, but you actually don’t know my opinion.

735
01:10:32.540 –> 01:10:38.610
E Dogg: you could have asked me, because a lot of the things you said in there, I understand and I agree with.

736
01:10:38.610 –> 01:10:39.690
Kay: Yeah.

737
01:10:39.800 –> 01:10:40.700
E Dogg: But you…

738
01:10:40.850 –> 01:10:49.090
E Dogg: you just… you’re just in reaction mode. And I forgive you for being in reaction mode, because you’re going through a lot, probably. And I told my wife that, and I’m like, that would be a really nice way of.

739
01:10:49.090 –> 01:10:54.699
Kay: the device. And my wife said, oh, no, no, no, I already responded. And she showed me her response, and I’m like, oh, okay, yeah, she chose…

740
01:10:54.700 –> 01:10:55.530
E Dogg: She chose violence.

741
01:10:55.530 –> 01:10:56.420
Kay: The other way.

742
01:10:57.490 –> 01:10:59.490
Kay: Yeah, sometimes that’s what you do, you know?

743
01:10:59.490 –> 01:11:07.369
E Dogg: So then I thought, okay, I’m gonna apply some of this empathy to my wife, and be like, okay, so you felt very offended, and we kind of don’t like her anyway, and we think

744
01:11:07.710 –> 01:11:08.750
E Dogg: stupid.

745
01:11:09.550 –> 01:11:15.910
E Dogg: We think our kids are wild animals. And so we’re like, yeah, okay. And I’m like, okay, you felt like… you felt like…

746
01:11:16.700 –> 01:11:28.450
E Dogg: pissing her off even more, but I’m like… and I told her, like, so I get it, that’s perfectly fine. I said, although, if you really wanted to piss her off, you should have ignored her completely. Don’t even, don’t even block her, just ignore her completely.

747
01:11:28.450 –> 01:11:30.050
Kay: That’s hard to do, I will say.

748
01:11:30.050 –> 01:11:33.630
E Dogg: She probably would have heard more. Yeah, it’s not my account, she didn’t call me ignorant.

749
01:11:33.630 –> 01:11:34.150
Kay: Right.

750
01:11:34.150 –> 01:11:37.799
E Dogg: Anyway, but I think that was, like, a perfect showcase of what we’re talking about here.

751
01:11:37.800 –> 01:11:38.649
Kay: People just…

752
01:11:38.650 –> 01:11:46.489
E Dogg: reacting, they’re just reacting, reacting, reacting. No one’s having a conversation. And if I would be at the Thanksgiving dinner with people who are different than me, I wouldn’t…

753
01:11:46.630 –> 01:11:50.239
E Dogg: try to budge them from their position. First of all, I don’t think it’s possible.

754
01:11:50.390 –> 01:11:57.520
E Dogg: And second of all, I have something to gain by deeply understanding what they’re thinking and feeling and why.

755
01:11:57.660 –> 01:11:59.759
E Dogg: And so, to me, it was funny, because…

756
01:11:59.990 –> 01:12:04.120
E Dogg: That one pundit who said, like, no, fight, fight, fight, show…

757
01:12:04.390 –> 01:12:10.659
E Dogg: you are perfectly within your rights to let your view be known. And to me, it’s kind of like, yeah, whether or not it’s…

758
01:12:11.010 –> 01:12:13.070
E Dogg: a thoughtful… Or health.

759
01:12:13.070 –> 01:12:14.639
Kay: Outcome. Yeah, good point.

760
01:12:14.640 –> 01:12:25.129
E Dogg: Right? Whether or not it’s a thoughtful or helpful view, we’re not asking you to search deep within yourself, to question your own thoughts and politics, as you would like everyone else to do.

761
01:12:25.150 –> 01:12:26.470
Kay: We’re asking you…

762
01:12:26.470 –> 01:12:31.770
E Dogg: to… You know, vehemently defend your position, no matter how ill-conceived it is.

763
01:12:31.770 –> 01:12:32.660
Kay: Yeah, yeah.

764
01:12:32.660 –> 01:12:36.720
E Dogg: And so I thought that was funny. I thought that was, like, a perfect little vignette of…

765
01:12:37.010 –> 01:12:41.480
E Dogg: of what we’ve talked about many times, because you and I do not fit into a neat little category.

766
01:12:41.480 –> 01:12:42.589
Kay: You and I…

767
01:12:42.590 –> 01:12:56.450
E Dogg: also being human, also react to things people say. Kind of like, oh, you know, if I detect someone is a hopeless, crazy hipster, I will react immediately to that, without trying to understand them, right? Like, if they tell me…

768
01:12:56.450 –> 01:12:58.029
Kay: tell you, Coffee is a…

769
01:12:58.030 –> 01:13:08.439
E Dogg: These tacos are the worst tacos ever. Have you had tacos in Mexico City at this little… there’s this little taco stand in the corner of the Bellas Artes, whatever, and it’s like a white guy, right?

770
01:13:08.560 –> 01:13:09.329
E Dogg: And you’re like…

771
01:13:09.330 –> 01:13:11.730
Kay: You’ll be able to pronounce it as well as you, but yes, let’s see…

772
01:13:11.730 –> 01:13:12.780
E Dogg: No, but that…

773
01:13:12.780 –> 01:13:14.770
Kay: I think you would, yeah.

774
01:13:14.770 –> 01:13:22.290
E Dogg: This is a little taco 5 blocks away from El Socolo, and it’s, they have the best Suero tacos, right? And you’re just like…

775
01:13:22.290 –> 01:13:22.880
Kay: Drive me crazy.

776
01:13:22.880 –> 01:13:33.469
E Dogg: okay, you’re an annoying hipster, and I’m gonna react immediately to what you just said, without trying to figure out where it’s coming from. I do it too, I mean, we both do it, right? But, I mean, I think that’s what’s missing, is…

777
01:13:33.720 –> 01:13:39.100
E Dogg: is that, is, you know, these racial things, Southern Italians, North Italians.

778
01:13:39.100 –> 01:13:39.680
Kay: Yeah.

779
01:13:39.680 –> 01:13:49.729
E Dogg: Everyone has a reason for saying these things that they say. People who say that America is white people who have been here for 150 years, everyone else doesn’t really belong here. There are people who truly believe that.

780
01:13:49.730 –> 01:13:50.090
Kay: Yeah.

781
01:13:50.090 –> 01:13:52.249
E Dogg: And you know what?

782
01:13:52.250 –> 01:13:56.439
Kay: And I hope they… I hope that they are far and few between, because I think the reality…

783
01:13:56.440 –> 01:14:06.309
E Dogg: understand them, too. I mean, I really do. If you… if you’re a poor white person or a white person, even, I mean, most of the people saying this are not poor, but if you’re, like, a middle-class white person who feels like…

784
01:14:06.670 –> 01:14:11.429
E Dogg: you know, left out of the political discourse. You don’t have a special identity like these other people do.

785
01:14:11.570 –> 01:14:17.710
E Dogg: Which is bullshit. Just because you’re white in America doesn’t mean you don’t have a special ethnic identity.

786
01:14:17.710 –> 01:14:18.630
Kay: Well, I think people have.

787
01:14:18.630 –> 01:14:20.350
E Dogg: We should talk about yours, for God’s sakes.

788
01:14:20.350 –> 01:14:25.500
Kay: You know, I think the reality, because I live in a small town in rural America, and

789
01:14:27.810 –> 01:14:30.250
Kay: I know for a fact.

790
01:14:31.150 –> 01:14:35.400
Kay: I go to a coffee shop, which I kind of think of as cheers, basically, everyone kind of knows.

791
01:14:35.790 –> 01:14:38.209
Kay: I have a good friend there that’s…

792
01:14:38.780 –> 01:14:44.580
Kay: As MAGA as they come. And he’s a great guy. I love… I love the guy. He’s a… he’s a sweet guy.

793
01:14:45.690 –> 01:14:51.929
Kay: But you get him on a topic about immigrants or something like that, and he’ll go off the rails about it. And…

794
01:14:52.050 –> 01:15:04.629
Kay: he would probably say all the stuff that you’re saying, that you’re kind of mimicking of what you would think a MAGA guy would say about, should people be allowed to be here, who’s… da-da-da-da, and yet I’ve seen him interact with.

795
01:15:04.630 –> 01:15:05.170
E Dogg: Yep.

796
01:15:06.080 –> 01:15:16.039
Kay: with people that are not white, often enough, that I can see that, even in his own world, there’s… well, you’re not one of them, you know, that kind of mind.

797
01:15:16.040 –> 01:15:16.520
E Dogg: character.

798
01:15:16.520 –> 01:15:17.010
Kay: French.

799
01:15:17.010 –> 01:15:17.850
E Dogg: Not you.

800
01:15:17.850 –> 01:15:21.529
Kay: Right, so there’s… so what I… what I think is happening is there’s…

801
01:15:21.770 –> 01:15:34.169
Kay: His worldview, which he’s interacting with in his head, and in that world, there’s problems, and da-da-da, and these people are good, and those people are bad, and then there’s his practical, real…

802
01:15:34.450 –> 01:15:43.539
Kay: reality in front of him. That’s not in a fantasy. And when it comes to that practical point, he’s very gracious and a lovely man.

803
01:15:43.740 –> 01:15:50.620
Kay: And when it comes to his fantasy world about how he thinks the world is acting, it’s a completely different, you know, situation, you know?

804
01:15:50.960 –> 01:15:51.710
Kay: And there are…

805
01:15:51.710 –> 01:15:52.070
E Dogg: So.

806
01:15:52.070 –> 01:15:52.460
Kay: Yeah.

807
01:15:52.460 –> 01:16:03.749
E Dogg: So to me, I mean, I couldn’t agree more. I think this is part… I mean, so first of all, it’s a human thing, right? It’s called, you know, cognitive dissonance. You can have two opposing ideas in your brain at the exact same time.

808
01:16:03.750 –> 01:16:09.649
Kay: Very few people can, but but yes, it technically is possible. Who’s the kind of listening to me? No, I’m just kidding, you’re right.

809
01:16:09.650 –> 01:16:22.289
E Dogg: Well, you know, my own parents, right? They’re older, and they’re immigrants, and there’s no one more racist or homophobic than immigrants to the U.S. Anyway, so.

810
01:16:23.400 –> 01:16:25.760
Kay: You’d be surprised at how common that is, actually.

811
01:16:25.760 –> 01:16:38.050
E Dogg: Maybe 10 or 15 years ago, I remember I once talked about, like, gay marriage, and they kind of went nuts. I also think that they were afraid that I was gay. Because, you know, I was still single, and I wasn’t getting married anytime soon.

812
01:16:38.050 –> 01:16:38.560
Kay: Got it, yeah.

813
01:16:38.560 –> 01:16:41.620
E Dogg: And so, like, you know, they, they were, you know, they’re like.

814
01:16:41.720 –> 01:16:46.730
E Dogg: Look, I just don’t think people should get married, blah blah blah, and I called them homophobes.

815
01:16:47.130 –> 01:16:49.500
E Dogg: And it’s funny, because…

816
01:16:49.500 –> 01:16:50.939
Kay: And do they enjoy this?

817
01:16:50.940 –> 01:16:52.299
E Dogg: Well, you… no, they did not.

818
01:16:53.000 –> 01:16:58.879
E Dogg: We’re not homophobic, we just think they should… we just don’t think they should have rights, because we’re afraid of them.

819
01:17:00.180 –> 01:17:12.090
E Dogg: So… but it was funny, right? So, I love my parents, and I respect them, and I don’t think they’re stupid, and I don’t think they’re ignorant, and I don’t think they’re hateful people. And they said those things, and if it was anyone else, I’d be like, oh, these are hateful, ignorant racists.

820
01:17:12.090 –> 01:17:15.060
Kay: Terrible people. But they’re not. I know they’re not. Right?

821
01:17:15.060 –> 01:17:19.319
E Dogg: So to me, it was interesting because, like, just like you said.

822
01:17:19.510 –> 01:17:30.870
E Dogg: Actually, I had gay friends, my dad had a gay friend that he refused to admit was gay, and I’ve seen them interact with people that they know are gay, and they are respectful, they are polite.

823
01:17:30.870 –> 01:17:32.480
Kay: You’re, you’re very humane.

824
01:17:32.710 –> 01:17:38.750
E Dogg: Right? And I know I… I have Europeans in my family who are deeply anti-Semitic.

825
01:17:38.970 –> 01:17:48.540
E Dogg: And I have seen them interact with people that they know are Jewish, and they don’t treat them in a hateful way. They are respectful. But it’s like, wow, that is cognitive dissonance. I mean.

826
01:17:48.540 –> 01:17:49.280
Kay: Yeah, good point.

827
01:17:49.530 –> 01:17:52.520
E Dogg: Just to hit this point home, I have in-laws.

828
01:17:52.680 –> 01:17:57.190
E Dogg: who are very conservative Christian evangelical Guatemalans.

829
01:17:58.240 –> 01:18:01.240
E Dogg: consider themselves racially superior to Indigenous people.

830
01:18:01.480 –> 01:18:03.100
E Dogg: Absolutely, no.

831
01:18:04.340 –> 01:18:05.449
E Dogg: And I remember I was once…

832
01:18:06.080 –> 01:18:11.440
E Dogg: I had met this person working in Guatemala, in the gay rights space.

833
01:18:11.730 –> 01:18:15.439
E Dogg: But it was for, like, this really big, impressive international company.

834
01:18:15.650 –> 01:18:16.190
Kay: Hmm.

835
01:18:16.190 –> 01:18:21.290
E Dogg: And it turns out that his aunt was an in-law of mine.

836
01:18:21.470 –> 01:18:23.470
E Dogg: It was a very conservative woman who

837
01:18:24.010 –> 01:18:31.729
E Dogg: And I talked to him once, I’m like, oh, hey, I met your… just out of… you know, Guatemala’s a small place, if you’re an educated, elite person, and I said.

838
01:18:31.980 –> 01:18:37.760
E Dogg: I met your nephew, works at this gigantic international company, I won’t say the name.

839
01:18:38.110 –> 01:18:48.340
E Dogg: And she was very proud of the fact that someone in her family worked at this big, beautiful company, and who has a university degree, and he’s so important. And he speaks English fluently, and blah blah blah.

840
01:18:48.810 –> 01:18:50.030
E Dogg: And I said, like.

841
01:18:50.450 –> 01:19:00.149
E Dogg: Because he… this guy is a gay rights activist. But he works for a multinational company in that space that takes international donor money.

842
01:19:00.510 –> 01:19:05.520
E Dogg: And she was just so proud of him, and I’m like, Oh, you…

843
01:19:05.730 –> 01:19:11.980
E Dogg: You’re proud of him? Oh, yes! He’s amazing. And I’m like, okay, maybe she doesn’t know he’s gay. So I said, like, oh, have you…

844
01:19:12.130 –> 01:19:18.829
E Dogg: I mean, have you, like, visited him, or… Oh, yeah, we were at his house all the time. Oh my god, his, his partner, and she said partner.

845
01:19:19.200 –> 01:19:25.329
E Dogg: Oh, him and his partner have immaculate taste. Their home is beautiful, and they put together the most amazing

846
01:19:25.480 –> 01:19:30.470
E Dogg: meals, they’re just the most amazing, interesting, sophisticated people. They’re so successful.

847
01:19:30.660 –> 01:19:36.210
E Dogg: And I’m like, oh, shit. She doesn’t believe they should be able to get married. She doesn’t believe in gay.

848
01:19:36.210 –> 01:19:36.720
Kay: Right.

849
01:19:36.720 –> 01:19:40.889
E Dogg: She believes… she believes people choose to be gay. She believes if you are gay, you should be converted.

850
01:19:40.890 –> 01:19:42.649
Kay: It’s a straight, right?

851
01:19:42.650 –> 01:19:46.649
E Dogg: And then I… and then I… and then I said, oh wow, okay, so you’ve been… you’ve met him and his partner.

852
01:19:46.770 –> 01:19:54.099
E Dogg: Oh yeah, they’ve been together for so long, it’s such a sh… and she, you know, she puts her hand on my lap. Such a shame they can’t get married, you know.

853
01:19:54.100 –> 01:19:56.600
Kay: Oh, wow. I’m like, what the fuck?

854
01:19:56.850 –> 01:20:09.710
E Dogg: And I talked… and I talked to this guy about this later, I’m like, I met your aunt, and I thought she was a, you know, crazy homophobe. And he’s like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she’s so sweet, and he has, like, a Guatemalan thing, like, this is my family, and I love them.

855
01:20:09.710 –> 01:20:10.770
Kay: Got it.

856
01:20:10.770 –> 01:20:16.109
E Dogg: And I thought, like, well, an American would have disowned his own aunt at that point. But no, and he said.

857
01:20:16.110 –> 01:20:17.779
Kay: That’s a very good point.

858
01:20:17.780 –> 01:20:20.450
E Dogg: He said, he said, no, family’s very important, still.

859
01:20:20.450 –> 01:20:21.130
Kay: To…

860
01:20:21.130 –> 01:20:22.729
E Dogg: Guatemalans and tomatoes, right?

861
01:20:22.730 –> 01:20:23.119
Kay: That’s right.

862
01:20:23.120 –> 01:20:31.500
E Dogg: not to all the ones, but to a lot of them, and he said, she’s just, like, a very lovely woman, and she’s very supportive, and I am aware of her political views.

863
01:20:31.670 –> 01:20:42.919
E Dogg: But he said, you know, he told me, he’s like, you know, this is how gay rights can progress. And this is back to the Malcolm X, Booker T. Washington, Martin Luther King Jr. debate.

864
01:20:43.190 –> 01:20:45.720
E Dogg: Do you assimilate and dominate?

865
01:20:46.570 –> 01:20:52.570
E Dogg: Right, right. You assimilate and gain acceptance in the software over time, through…

866
01:20:52.880 –> 01:21:00.279
E Dogg: the system? Or do you break the system? And so, he said, this is how gay rights have prospered.

867
01:21:00.380 –> 01:21:04.329
E Dogg: globally, but also in Guatemala, is that everyone knows someone who’s gay.

868
01:21:04.470 –> 01:21:10.879
E Dogg: And so, if you can just humanize what being gay is, if they can just see the gay person as being a real person.

869
01:21:10.880 –> 01:21:13.299
Kay: Sure, yeah, suddenly.

870
01:21:13.330 –> 01:21:17.320
E Dogg: And they will get there eventually, because she, intellectually, is still not there.

871
01:21:17.320 –> 01:21:18.090
Kay: Right, right.

872
01:21:18.090 –> 01:21:19.660
E Dogg: What emotionally she is, because…

873
01:21:20.270 –> 01:21:32.769
E Dogg: what being gay is has a face and a name, and it’s a family member. And that’s how I feel about political stuff, you know? You get to know people who are a part of the MAGA movement, or a part of the woke left.

874
01:21:33.500 –> 01:21:37.170
E Dogg: You get to know them as people, don’t get them talking about politics.

875
01:21:37.500 –> 01:21:50.750
E Dogg: Sure. Talk about, you know, talk about food. Yeah, some people always hear the conversation towards politics. You start talking about, like, oh, what do you like to watch on Netflix? And they’re like, oh, I watch Yellowstone, and it’s like, oh, Yellowstone is a MAGA thing. No, it’s not!

876
01:21:51.080 –> 01:21:53.920
E Dogg: Or if it’s like, oh, you know…

877
01:21:55.440 –> 01:22:05.750
E Dogg: you watch a show, and you’re like, yeah, but it depicts immigrants as being good, which is crazy, right? And you’re like, what? Yeah, sometimes the conversation goes into these places because people are in these weird bubbles.

878
01:22:06.140 –> 01:22:12.960
E Dogg: But, yeah, man, if you have someone in your family that you love, and you think they’re a good person, they just happen to have these views that you don’t think are very lovely.

879
01:22:13.180 –> 01:22:18.630
E Dogg: it really gets you to empathize… gets you to empathize and gets you to understand the other side, so… Anyway, I mean, that’s…

880
01:22:18.630 –> 01:22:19.300
Kay: Yeah.

881
01:22:19.550 –> 01:22:20.789
Kay: That’s all I have to say about that.

882
01:22:21.330 –> 01:22:22.390
E Dogg: Looking at that.

883
01:22:22.390 –> 01:22:22.820
Kay: Yeah.

884
01:22:22.820 –> 01:22:24.130
E Dogg: My family is visiting.

885
01:22:24.130 –> 01:22:29.349
Kay: Yeah, I was about to ask, how is that, how’s your, how’s the family, visit going?

886
01:22:29.350 –> 01:22:31.969
E Dogg: It’s good. I still have to work a lot while they’re here, so that’s a shame.

887
01:22:31.970 –> 01:22:33.989
Kay: Okay. How long are they there for?

888
01:22:34.520 –> 01:22:36.580
E Dogg: They’re here for another week.

889
01:22:36.580 –> 01:22:38.440
Kay: That’s great. That’s exciting. Wonderful.

890
01:22:38.440 –> 01:22:42.489
E Dogg: And I have a… yeah, no. I mean, I, you know, I…

891
01:22:42.490 –> 01:22:46.049
Kay: Meeting the baby… for the first time? No.

892
01:22:46.230 –> 01:22:47.460
E Dogg: No, no, they were there when the baby.

893
01:22:47.460 –> 01:22:48.959
Kay: They’re there with the bow, okay, great.

894
01:22:49.230 –> 01:22:58.029
E Dogg: Yeah, yeah. No, for me, yeah, I used to not emphasize family that much. I think I was really part of that kind of thick stream in American culture, where it was.

895
01:22:58.030 –> 01:22:58.350
Kay: Yeah.

896
01:22:58.350 –> 01:23:05.809
E Dogg: rugged independence, you know, you don’t depend on your family. And if your family does or says or believes something you don’t like, you just never talk to them again.

897
01:23:06.500 –> 01:23:11.480
Kay: Well, that worked out really great for our country, so it’s, yeah, exactly.

898
01:23:11.480 –> 01:23:13.210
E Dogg: And so…

899
01:23:13.410 –> 01:23:15.249
Kay: Including birth rate and all that stuff.

900
01:23:15.580 –> 01:23:24.549
E Dogg: So to me, if you want to support the birth rate, to me, if you want to have families that are integral, private entities that support each other instead of relying on government

901
01:23:24.660 –> 01:23:25.620
E Dogg: handouts.

902
01:23:26.020 –> 01:23:27.100
E Dogg: The families where it all began.

903
01:23:27.100 –> 01:23:27.480
Kay: Yeah.

904
01:23:27.480 –> 01:23:38.480
E Dogg: That’s how it is. That was how it is all over the world. Yeah. In traditional places where you cannot rely on the government, where you cannot rely on a safety net, your family’s a safety net. That’s why you have to put up.

905
01:23:38.480 –> 01:23:39.170
Kay: That’s absolutely true.

906
01:23:39.620 –> 01:23:41.340
E Dogg: From China to Guatemala, man.

907
01:23:41.340 –> 01:23:41.920
Kay: That’s absolutely true.

908
01:23:42.020 –> 01:23:42.740
E Dogg: They’re putting up with.

909
01:23:42.740 –> 01:23:47.590
Kay: And we… it’s amazing how we’ve forgotten this. It’s so… I think the U.S.

910
01:23:48.370 –> 01:23:57.239
Kay: is leading this sad… Charge into this bleak world where you don’t need, you know, we have…

911
01:23:57.460 –> 01:24:02.469
Kay: Insurance for everything, and all this stuff, and you don’t need anyone’s support for anything, and

912
01:24:03.000 –> 01:24:04.829
Kay: We don’t…

913
01:24:05.560 –> 01:24:14.069
Kay: gosh, I mean, the… parents are not wanting to be around grandchildren. I mean, good for you that you have parents that are, like, excited to do that.

914
01:24:14.400 –> 01:24:16.219
Kay: We have…

915
01:24:17.290 –> 01:24:23.990
Kay: I don’t know, we just have people that are, you know, they’re giving up on their elderly, on the elderly. It’s… it is bleak, and

916
01:24:24.260 –> 01:24:31.289
Kay: I do hope that we can… you know, I heard that China was working on, kind of like, and this is probably a rumor, but…

917
01:24:31.620 –> 01:24:37.000
Kay: But there’s always some fire, maybe, between… underneath the smoke. There was an article that,

918
01:24:37.760 –> 01:24:55.830
Kay: they’ll… they’ve started working on, like, you know, robot birthing machines that… that can, hopefully one day save our humanity from… from itself by, you know, some sort of artificial birthing system. Because I think, as depressing as it sounds, it’s probably exactly what we need to be working on right now.

919
01:24:55.850 –> 01:25:00.239
Kay: Because it’s going that direction, and hard and fast, and so, you know, that’s…

920
01:25:00.240 –> 01:25:03.999
E Dogg: Let’s make The Matrix, the movie, happen as fast as possible. I would love to be.

921
01:25:04.000 –> 01:25:10.959
Kay: A cold robot that’s sycophantic and gives me a lot of positive reinforcement all the time. Great job,!

922
01:25:11.350 –> 01:25:14.490
E Dogg: It’s so funny, too, because it’s like.

923
01:25:15.390 –> 01:25:19.440
Kay: I hate you, Molly! You’re absolutely right, I have been a terrible mother.

924
01:25:20.460 –> 01:25:24.660
E Dogg: It’s so funny, because it’s like, leave it to the Chinese to watch The Matrix and think, like, oh yeah, let’s do that.

925
01:25:24.660 –> 01:25:25.420
Kay: Yeah.

926
01:25:25.940 –> 01:25:28.240
E Dogg: The machines birthed the humans?

927
01:25:28.510 –> 01:25:30.899
Kay: I love it.

928
01:25:30.900 –> 01:25:31.840
E Dogg: Write that down.

929
01:25:31.840 –> 01:25:33.800
Kay: Right, take notes.

930
01:25:33.800 –> 01:25:35.269
E Dogg: Take notes, we’re, we’re doing.

931
01:25:35.270 –> 01:25:35.680
Kay: Okay.

932
01:25:35.680 –> 01:25:38.950
E Dogg: Whatever that is. Oh, I think those are the bad guys, though.

933
01:25:39.380 –> 01:25:41.000
E Dogg: You know, I don’t have time…

934
01:25:41.180 –> 01:25:47.690
E Dogg: First of all, I don’t have time to debate this. Good or bad. If they’re the bad guys in an American movie, they’re probably doing something right.

935
01:25:47.820 –> 01:26:04.080
Kay: So, what did you think about, if you don’t mind real quick, what did you think about the takeover? I mean, we’re sitting in a pretty remarkable moment where our country has just taken over another country with no, you know, no veneer. In the past, there was a veneer of

936
01:26:04.160 –> 01:26:15.239
Kay: well, we’re just here to bring democracy right back and help these people. You know, we’re not putting that on anymore, we’re just gonna run the place. Now, this, as I was thinking about it, this is nothing…

937
01:26:15.370 –> 01:26:29.980
Kay: Nothing new, we’ve done it before as a country. I love… I was listening to the New York Times Daily, and the first thing they said was, this is the most historic, precedented thing, unprecedented thing we’ve ever heard of, but we haven’t seen this for, 20 years. I was like, okay.

938
01:26:30.530 –> 01:26:42.369
Kay: Apparently, it’s not that big of a deal then. But anyway, we’ve done it before. It’s not the first time in history it’s happened at all, even in our own history. We’ve done, you know, taken over Puerto Rico, I mean, there was a lot of stuff we did

939
01:26:42.770 –> 01:26:52.070
Kay: We wanted to take over Cuba, that was our goal, if you look at… if you’re a fan of The Godfather, too. So what was… what’s your opinion, what’s your thoughts on that, if you don’t mind?

940
01:26:52.090 –> 01:26:55.419
E Dogg: Sure, sure. Yeah, I mean, so to me, you know.

941
01:26:56.060 –> 01:27:00.679
E Dogg: I guess it depends… I mean, I really do think it depends on,

942
01:27:01.070 –> 01:27:07.899
E Dogg: On who you are, right? So, I think people are very quick to want to plant their opinion in some sort of universal value

943
01:27:08.010 –> 01:27:09.739
E Dogg: This is wrong because of this.

944
01:27:10.340 –> 01:27:16.320
E Dogg: to me, I don’t see it that way. I see a lot of things as being, well, it depends who you are, right? If you’re a Venezuelan.

945
01:27:16.500 –> 01:27:19.100
E Dogg: a refugee who lives outside of Venezuela.

946
01:27:19.310 –> 01:27:21.249
E Dogg: You don’t give a shit how we got the post.

947
01:27:23.260 –> 01:27:27.739
Kay: Right. All the… all the Venezuelan people outside of Venezuela I know were celebrating it.

948
01:27:27.740 –> 01:27:29.870
E Dogg: So, sometimes it’s just as simple as that, right?

949
01:27:29.870 –> 01:27:30.210
Kay: Yeah.

950
01:27:30.210 –> 01:27:33.109
E Dogg: Now, I am not Venezuelan, I’m an American.

951
01:27:33.650 –> 01:27:39.839
E Dogg: So I, as an American and someone who’s dedicated to the rule of law and to democracy.

952
01:27:41.250 –> 01:27:50.149
E Dogg: Yeah, I mean, I am cons… I get concerned about the process. I am not just results-oriented, right? I think populists tend to be only results-oriented.

953
01:27:50.400 –> 01:27:56.950
E Dogg: What I think populists miss… I… I am also frustrated by the lack of results. You look at…

954
01:27:57.170 –> 01:28:02.390
E Dogg: our Venezuela policy since Chavez took over, and it has been ineffectual.

955
01:28:02.750 –> 01:28:07.749
E Dogg: Sanctions, economic diplomatic pressure, nothing has helped.

956
01:28:07.980 –> 01:28:09.680
E Dogg: Restore democracy.

957
01:28:09.810 –> 01:28:15.999
E Dogg: or the rule of law to Venezuela. And it affects us as an American. You should care about this. It’s in our own backyard.

958
01:28:16.190 –> 01:28:24.189
E Dogg: It’s driven mass migration, it’s driven some drug trafficking, it’s driven illegal gold smuggling…

959
01:28:24.530 –> 01:28:30.839
E Dogg: And criminal empires grow under sanctioned regimes that then have knock-on effects.

960
01:28:31.460 –> 01:28:47.649
E Dogg: say, you know, ditto for the drug cartels in Mexico, create an environment of criminal activity that then bleeds into other areas. And now cartels are… they’re working online scams.

961
01:28:47.800 –> 01:28:57.250
E Dogg: they’re working on fentanyl, they’re working on human smuggling, trafficking in persons. It… because they have impunity and built this large criminal network.

962
01:28:57.670 –> 01:29:08.610
E Dogg: it will eventually affect Americans. The fentanyl crisis, right? Americans going to vacation in Mexico, getting murdered because they are mistaken for people of a rival gang.

963
01:29:08.970 –> 01:29:14.430
E Dogg: And so… I, as an American, care about America, right? And to me.

964
01:29:16.380 –> 01:29:25.459
E Dogg: if we want to have a rule of law and a process that works for Americans, we need to do things like this a certain way. Now, having said that.

965
01:29:25.790 –> 01:29:34.479
E Dogg: We did things a certain way before, and nothing happened. Nothing fucking happened. Maduro was just there forever, and the criminal networks and the corruption are growing.

966
01:29:34.800 –> 01:29:36.060
Kay: So…

967
01:29:36.690 –> 01:29:52.619
E Dogg: I guess, to me, it depends. It depends on what happens after this. I think it’s good that Maduro is gone. We didn’t invade the country. We, we mounted an incursion. We arrested him. Now, yeah, Noriega, right? That’s what everyone’s talking about.

968
01:29:52.810 –> 01:29:59.529
E Dogg: I was also seeing a commentator, because I thought, like, okay, yeah, it’s not unprecedented, that’s what we did in Noriega, we invaded Bandamo.

969
01:29:59.650 –> 01:30:04.370
Kay: I mean, it got a little botched. It got a little messy. It didn’t go as well as we thought it would go.

970
01:30:04.590 –> 01:30:05.420
E Dogg: But…

971
01:30:05.650 –> 01:30:14.019
E Dogg: there are ways that Panama is similar, there are ways that Panama is different. It’s different in that we had a stronger case to make

972
01:30:14.590 –> 01:30:20.930
E Dogg: for the invasion and the arrest of Noriega, because we had…

973
01:30:21.430 –> 01:30:32.250
E Dogg: national interests that were more directly… you could draw a very straight line. Okay, we had Marines there, we had a military base, we had American citizens, we have an embassy there.

974
01:30:32.580 –> 01:30:33.200
Kay: Interesting.

975
01:30:33.200 –> 01:30:38.549
E Dogg: we had worked with Noriega, To end the drug trafficking,

976
01:30:39.130 –> 01:30:45.329
E Dogg: from… through Panama, and he had turned his back, and he had betrayed us.

977
01:30:45.610 –> 01:30:49.809
E Dogg: And it put American lives at risk in an area where there was a lot of cooperation.

978
01:30:49.810 –> 01:30:50.370
Kay: Yeah.

979
01:30:52.290 –> 01:30:55.679
Kay: Canal was there. I mean, I forgot. No, that was… Right. Yeah, the Canal was there.

980
01:30:55.680 –> 01:31:00.969
E Dogg: These are two things I think about, right? I think about, like, okay, here, the direct…

981
01:31:01.080 –> 01:31:06.390
E Dogg: national interests. The narco-trafficking is probably the flimsiest of all of them.

982
01:31:06.390 –> 01:31:07.200
Kay: Absolutely.

983
01:31:07.400 –> 01:31:13.550
E Dogg: I think there is a case to be made about American companies and international companies, British companies.

984
01:31:13.970 –> 01:31:21.749
E Dogg: Being… having their oil contracts Rescinded not having their rights respected?

985
01:31:23.000 –> 01:31:25.440
E Dogg: American companies are affected.

986
01:31:25.970 –> 01:31:29.709
E Dogg: By the betrayal. Is that enough to go in and arrest them?

987
01:31:29.950 –> 01:31:32.690
E Dogg: I don’t think so, it sets a really dangerous precedent.

988
01:31:33.250 –> 01:31:42.510
E Dogg: if that’s the reason you want to do it, it’s pretty flimsy. I will wait and withhold judgment to see, because one of the things I did like about the operation was, first of all.

989
01:31:42.980 –> 01:31:45.509
E Dogg: We didn’t lose any American lives in the process. That made me very happy.

990
01:31:45.640 –> 01:31:48.740
E Dogg: Second of all, they captured him, they did not kill him.

991
01:31:49.040 –> 01:31:49.630
Kay: True.

992
01:31:50.240 –> 01:31:51.090
E Dogg: Finally.

993
01:31:51.210 –> 01:32:07.469
E Dogg: he has been arrested, and he has been indicted, and he will go to a court. And I, despite my left-leaning friends’ opinions, I still believe in the American court system. I really do. It’s not perfect. Everyone who complains, like, oh, miscarriages of justice, and look what happened.

994
01:32:07.600 –> 01:32:12.850
E Dogg: Okay, point to me, please. Like, let’s be practical. That’s my problem with the left. They’re so impractical.

995
01:32:12.960 –> 01:32:16.659
E Dogg: Point to me one country that’s nailing this.

996
01:32:17.080 –> 01:32:17.920
E Dogg: Right?

997
01:32:18.290 –> 01:32:30.849
E Dogg: like, yeah, we should always be improving our court system. It’s not perfect. It has huge gaps. Mandatory minimums, the drug war, bias against, poor and minority

998
01:32:31.990 –> 01:32:35.170
E Dogg: you know, defendants is a thing. It’s not personal.

999
01:32:35.170 –> 01:32:35.880
Kay: Perfect.

1000
01:32:36.060 –> 01:32:44.889
E Dogg: But we’re bringing this person in front of a court, and if he is truly guilty, I think he will be found guilty. And in which case, I think that does as much… so if he was actually…

1001
01:32:45.270 –> 01:32:50.700
E Dogg: leading a lot of these drug trafficking networks, and it is proven in a court of law in the US,

1002
01:32:51.080 –> 01:32:52.610
E Dogg: I feel a lot better about it.

1003
01:32:52.830 –> 01:33:09.449
E Dogg: But yeah, it sets a precedent. I’m sure our enemies and our rivals are looking at this and getting ready to justify it, but Russia invaded Ukraine. They already did it. Russia has assassinated people on other countries’ soils, violating sovereignty of Western countries.

1004
01:33:09.450 –> 01:33:09.970
Kay: Yeah.

1005
01:33:09.970 –> 01:33:17.760
E Dogg: They’ve already done it. China, locking up Uyghurs, they invaded Tibet in the 50s, the, you know.

1006
01:33:17.760 –> 01:33:18.919
Kay: They’re just… yeah.

1007
01:33:19.000 –> 01:33:20.920
E Dogg: transnational repression.

1008
01:33:21.410 –> 01:33:31.610
E Dogg: the Chinese government kidnapping Chinese citizens who are dual citizens of other countries, violating the sovereignty, you know.

1009
01:33:32.110 –> 01:33:34.399
E Dogg: what they’ve done with Taiwan.

1010
01:33:34.660 –> 01:33:40.039
E Dogg: these are all… they’re doing it already, so people who are like, oh, it’s such a dangerous precedent.

1011
01:33:40.050 –> 01:33:40.910
Kay: Yeah.

1012
01:33:40.910 –> 01:33:42.840
E Dogg: Russia’s invasion set of dangerous precedent.

1013
01:33:42.840 –> 01:33:43.919
Kay: Yeah, that’s true.

1014
01:33:43.920 –> 01:33:53.790
E Dogg: Like, so to me, you know, to me, it’s not as black and white as I think a lot of people are painting it. I think it’s something that had an immediately good effect. We will see if it works.

1015
01:33:54.050 –> 01:34:03.039
E Dogg: the acting president of Venezuela has said that the only true president of Venezuela is Maduro, and she has put a very pugnacious defense

1016
01:34:03.570 –> 01:34:06.659
E Dogg: of the Maduro regime together, and she…

1017
01:34:06.950 –> 01:34:12.649
E Dogg: has criticized it and said that she’s not going to cooperate with us. We’ll see what happens. We’ll see what happens.

1018
01:34:12.770 –> 01:34:17.850
E Dogg: So, to me, This is like everything else. I think it’s complex.

1019
01:34:18.000 –> 01:34:21.509
E Dogg: And also, let’s not… let’s not kid ourselves. Real politique.

1020
01:34:21.740 –> 01:34:23.580
E Dogg: you know, the U.S.

1021
01:34:24.160 –> 01:34:35.040
E Dogg: and every other sovereign country applies every leverage of power they can. And when it conveniences a country to cite international law, rule of order, multilateral

1022
01:34:35.490 –> 01:34:38.739
E Dogg: They do it. Exactly. And when it doesn’t, they don’t.

1023
01:34:39.050 –> 01:34:44.750
E Dogg: So what’s the difference between us, And, let’s say… Sweden?

1024
01:34:45.040 –> 01:34:46.580
Kay: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1025
01:34:46.580 –> 01:34:48.939
E Dogg: What’s the difference between us and Iraq?

1026
01:34:49.320 –> 01:34:50.400
E Dogg: We can’t.

1027
01:34:50.770 –> 01:34:51.480
E Dogg: That’s the difference.

1028
01:34:51.650 –> 01:34:57.349
Kay: Yeah, there’s this almost… I mean, I think we… I think what we’re learning with this

1029
01:34:58.380 –> 01:35:01.329
Kay: what I’ve learned, I should say, with this administration.

1030
01:35:02.240 –> 01:35:13.359
Kay: I’ve learned many things that I was quite naive about, maybe when… in the first administration, and before that, especially. Before this… before Trump version won.

1031
01:35:13.660 –> 01:35:17.730
Kay: I naively believed that international law was a real thing.

1032
01:35:17.730 –> 01:35:18.480
E Dogg: Yep.

1033
01:35:18.800 –> 01:35:26.399
Kay: I had maybe read, you know, history that suggested otherwise, but I… I was like, you know, this… that’s… you just don’t do that, that’s how it works, etc.

1034
01:35:26.400 –> 01:35:26.900
E Dogg: Yep.

1035
01:35:27.120 –> 01:35:33.940
Kay: And, within the country and without. Inside and outside of the country. I believe, you know, I really didn’t think about…

1036
01:35:34.050 –> 01:35:36.669
Kay: I didn’t question that…

1037
01:35:36.900 –> 01:35:49.949
Kay: the… I believed this… I don’t know if you heard of this sort of, like, fairy tale that they call it, but it’s called, like, the balance of power in the US, where they have, like, the three, you know, pillars of checks and balances. I believed in that fairy tale. I didn’t know that…

1038
01:35:50.090 –> 01:36:00.980
Kay: Basically, whatever branch has the most guns is really in control, and the others are basically… Given power by…

1039
01:36:01.620 –> 01:36:08.570
Kay: by tradition, right? I didn’t really get that. That was… Norms. Norms and traditions, I didn’t understand that.

1040
01:36:08.570 –> 01:36:10.550
E Dogg: It’s norms, is that a concrete law?

1041
01:36:10.550 –> 01:36:18.500
Kay: Right, exactly. Shocking to me. This was all shocking. So this is, to me, on the same line of that. There’s… there’s this belief of…

1042
01:36:18.840 –> 01:36:32.320
Kay: of order, and the good guys, and the bad guys, and yeah, maybe Russia might do something like this, but the US shouldn’t be doing that, and Europe would never do that. Well, Europe did a lot of shit, by the way, all over the world. They have a lot of.

1043
01:36:32.580 –> 01:36:35.959
E Dogg: They’ve recently found their sense of shock.

1044
01:36:35.960 –> 01:36:54.790
Kay: Exactly, yeah. What were they doing in, I mean, all of Africa, all of South Asia, much of, you know, many places in East Asia. I mean, they were really… and the Americas, so they were really up to a lot of no good and breaking norms and all that stuff for hundreds of years. And now they’re finally like, oh.

1045
01:36:54.790 –> 01:37:09.030
Kay: So I do think that we’re in a situation… what I think this is really about is less about drugs, I think that’s the cover, just like oil was the cover for the Iraq War, wars, I should say. I think this is really about China, and this just keeps coming back to me to… this is… this is really…

1046
01:37:09.180 –> 01:37:15.239
Kay: to me about… the whole Trump administration is really about China. I think the only reason Trump got elected twice

1047
01:37:16.740 –> 01:37:21.590
Kay: Was because before about 2000… 10.

1048
01:37:21.920 –> 01:37:30.619
Kay: no one really took China’s rise that seriously. We… they were not the second largest economy, they were third or fourth in, you know, down the line.

1049
01:37:30.940 –> 01:37:47.220
Kay: And, I can remember a time in the 2000s where it was U.S, Japan, and Germany were the pecking order of economic powers. And then suddenly, out of nowhere, China shoots up into… around, again, late 2010s, we see this, and suddenly.

1050
01:37:47.310 –> 01:38:00.959
Kay: people are realizing, oh, that’s where all these jobs went, that’s why I lost my job. They weren’t really putting two and two together, even though it was… even though every product they were buying said Made in China, they were not putting two and two together, that this is what was going on.

1051
01:38:00.960 –> 01:38:09.669
Kay: And then you have a much more aggressive, or more, let’s say, assertive China, with Xi Jinping, on the world stage, who is

1052
01:38:09.810 –> 01:38:12.180
Kay: flexing power in a way that the U.S.

1053
01:38:12.560 –> 01:38:20.090
Kay: politics have just never seen. Like, we had not seen anyone since the USSR flex power on the world stage.

1054
01:38:20.380 –> 01:38:34.520
Kay: and we had had a good 20, 30 years, well, let’s say 20 years, maybe, of the fall of the USSR, where we just thought that was it, you know, that was, you know, democracy won. And so I do think that that’s what has resulted in this sort of panic.

1055
01:38:35.820 –> 01:38:36.370
E Dogg: Yeah.

1056
01:38:36.610 –> 01:38:37.600
Kay: where…

1057
01:38:38.450 –> 01:38:44.170
Kay: for whatever reason, this cohort of… you know, you call it MAGA, call it whatever you want, there’s this…

1058
01:38:44.300 –> 01:38:45.670
Kay: Populism…

1059
01:38:45.810 –> 01:38:53.539
Kay: That has said, wait, there’s something wrong here, we’re not getting a good deal, we need to put someone in charge who’s gonna do something, because these… following these norms…

1060
01:38:53.540 –> 01:38:54.060
E Dogg: power.

1061
01:38:54.060 –> 01:38:56.890
Kay: Exactly, following these norms on the world stage…

1062
01:38:56.890 –> 01:38:58.130
E Dogg: And internationally.

1063
01:38:58.130 –> 01:39:00.819
Kay: Exactly, and if we just keep doing the nice…

1064
01:39:01.100 –> 01:39:08.649
Kay: polite approach, assuming that everyone has good intentions on the world stage, we’re gonna be in deep trouble. And there’s some sort of inherent wisdom

1065
01:39:08.920 –> 01:39:09.860
Kay: that…

1066
01:39:10.030 –> 01:39:23.340
Kay: wisdom and yet cra… I feel like it’s both wisdom and… and maybe dangerous insanity that is going to get us in trouble, and also is probably necessary. I don’t know, it’s very interesting, because to your point,

1067
01:39:24.840 –> 01:39:29.719
Kay: there is a sense of, like, we used to look at the Monroe Doctrine as this archaic.

1068
01:39:30.870 –> 01:39:33.780
Kay: Thing that we’re just like, whoa, that was when we were.

1069
01:39:33.780 –> 01:39:37.839
E Dogg: Prehistoric and stupid, and now… How about off-the-shelf policy option.

1070
01:39:37.840 –> 01:39:43.020
Kay: Right! And now that we see places like China in Panama.

1071
01:39:43.020 –> 01:39:58.009
Kay: putting lots of money in, the Belt and Road project there. I do think that there is a certain, like, oh, wow, there’s another power in our backyard, in a way that even Russia was not. I mean, they had Cuba, they had relationships with Cuba, and they wanted to have a lot of these relationships.

1072
01:39:58.010 –> 01:40:01.390
Kay: But they were not as… They didn’t have much to offer, really.

1073
01:40:01.390 –> 01:40:06.669
E Dogg: It’s because China’s power has a huge economic element, which makes it way more powerful.

1074
01:40:06.670 –> 01:40:07.410
Kay: Way more powerful.

1075
01:40:07.410 –> 01:40:09.839
E Dogg: Vulnerability… it’s the vulnerability of capitalism.

1076
01:40:09.840 –> 01:40:10.160
Kay: Absolutely.

1077
01:40:10.160 –> 01:40:15.519
E Dogg: is that if you have money, man, all the Soviets had was, like, politics and the internationale.

1078
01:40:15.520 –> 01:40:16.110
Kay: And military.

1079
01:40:16.110 –> 01:40:21.380
E Dogg: Like, oh, yeah… Exactly. See how well that worked.

1080
01:40:21.680 –> 01:40:30.069
E Dogg: Absolutely, and so to me, yeah, yeah, what is gone is the international norms. What is gone is the appearance that they matter.

1081
01:40:30.070 –> 01:40:31.939
Kay: Mmm, right, right, good point.

1082
01:40:31.940 –> 01:40:48.399
E Dogg: And so, it’s real politic, it’s happened before, it’s happened with other countries, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, you know, the 2003 Iraq invasion, had a lot of, kind of, window dressing about the coalition of the willing, we went to the UN and all this other stuff.

1083
01:40:48.560 –> 01:40:52.560
E Dogg: But I know plenty of people back then who said, like, well, that is…

1084
01:40:52.700 –> 01:41:08.229
E Dogg: That and this are the exact same thing. They’re just, like, it’s a naked show of the U.S.’s ability. And, yeah, I mean, I agree. Except they have gone… they have not… the only effort they went to to dress it up was to set up

1085
01:41:08.730 –> 01:41:12.810
E Dogg: the connection that Maduro was personally behind.

1086
01:41:12.810 –> 01:41:13.470
Kay: Got it.

1087
01:41:13.640 –> 01:41:25.749
E Dogg: Right, they tried a few different things, right? Trende Aragua was a Venezuelan gang, and then they tried to say, no, no, it’s a state-sponsored terrorist network, and they went to a lot of trouble to do that. The CIA would not sign off on that.

1088
01:41:25.750 –> 01:41:26.299
Kay: God, interesting.

1089
01:41:26.300 –> 01:41:35.190
E Dogg: even though they received a ton of political pressure from above, from, you know, it’s like a long story, but there’s this guy.

1090
01:41:35.410 –> 01:41:46.320
E Dogg: was the chief of staff for the Director of National Intelligence and pressured the CIA, and refused to release a report unless it said specifically, no, Trendaragua is an international criminal terrorist.

1091
01:41:46.320 –> 01:41:47.020
Kay: Interesting.

1092
01:41:47.280 –> 01:41:51.220
E Dogg: Organization backed by the government. That’s the legal hook they were.

1093
01:41:51.220 –> 01:41:51.770
Kay: Got it.

1094
01:41:51.770 –> 01:41:53.070
E Dogg: They couldn’t get it.

1095
01:41:53.070 –> 01:41:53.680
Kay: Interesting.

1096
01:41:53.680 –> 01:42:01.199
E Dogg: So the Trendaragua thing, they tried it, the… what is it, the Espionage Act, they tried to say Trendaragua is an invasion.

1097
01:42:01.220 –> 01:42:02.610
Kay: from a state.

1098
01:42:02.810 –> 01:42:03.380
E Dogg: Interesting.

1099
01:42:04.010 –> 01:42:11.790
E Dogg: You know, that court decision is still in appeals, because the court said, like, no, that’s not the proper application of this law from the 19th century.

1100
01:42:11.790 –> 01:42:12.360
Kay: Wow.

1101
01:42:12.470 –> 01:42:18.490
E Dogg: They tried… yeah, they tried terrorist network, they tried terrorism, and when terrorism fails, the next best bet is drugs.

1102
01:42:18.970 –> 01:42:24.579
Kay: If only people knew that they should be listening to the show, they would learn so much.

1103
01:42:24.580 –> 01:42:31.570
E Dogg: So listening to Fox and CNN. But all of this is happening in the open, though. I know all of this because it’s reported.

1104
01:42:31.570 –> 01:42:41.249
Kay: Exactly. But you pay attention, I think, in a way that people… and put things… you kind of synthesize things that you read in a way that most people don’t, which is cool.

1105
01:42:41.250 –> 01:42:43.619
E Dogg: I mean, there’s tons of media outlets pointing to it, saying.

1106
01:42:43.620 –> 01:42:44.010
Kay: Yeah.

1107
01:42:44.010 –> 01:42:45.940
E Dogg: Oh, they’re, like, building up a case to do something.

1108
01:42:45.940 –> 01:42:46.600
Kay: Right.

1109
01:42:46.600 –> 01:42:51.399
E Dogg: None of the media outlets I saw that made that argument imagined that this would be the next.

1110
01:42:51.400 –> 01:42:53.069
Kay: Got it, yeah, interesting.

1111
01:42:53.070 –> 01:42:58.740
E Dogg: So it’s just interesting to me. Yeah, I mean, it’s not unique, even within American history.

1112
01:42:58.740 –> 01:42:59.100
Kay: Yeah.

1113
01:42:59.100 –> 01:43:05.249
E Dogg: You know, as of President Jackson expelling Indigenous people.

1114
01:43:05.250 –> 01:43:05.790
Kay: Mmm.

1115
01:43:05.790 –> 01:43:16.220
E Dogg: from Lance that we agreed that they could have. That is a… that is a naked exercise of executive power. Andrew Jackson refusing to…

1116
01:43:16.470 –> 01:43:18.849
E Dogg: acknowledge… the Supreme Court.

1117
01:43:19.180 –> 01:43:20.090
E Dogg: Yep.

1118
01:43:20.090 –> 01:43:20.540
Kay: Right, right.

1119
01:43:20.730 –> 01:43:26.919
E Dogg: wanting to dissolve the Federal Reserve. I mean, like, there are so many different… and not Federal Reserve, I mean the Federal National Bank.

1120
01:43:27.400 –> 01:43:31.229
E Dogg: There are so many cases of presidents accumulating executive power.

1121
01:43:31.230 –> 01:43:32.030
Kay: Hmm.

1122
01:43:32.070 –> 01:43:38.099
E Dogg: With norms in place, the people who ceded that power for short-term gain could not imagine.

1123
01:43:38.100 –> 01:43:38.930
Kay: Golden Smart.

1124
01:43:39.570 –> 01:43:52.400
E Dogg: But it did. And there are people who have turned that into a theory, that, you know, unitary presidential theory of, like, oh no, the president can do all these things. And there are people who say that. There are people who say that Nixon wasn’t a crook, that he was…

1125
01:43:52.950 –> 01:44:02.170
E Dogg: Nixon was a repressed conservative voice, someone who did nothing wrong. There are people who believe that now. Yeah. And so, you know, the revisionist history on both sides.

1126
01:44:02.200 –> 01:44:14.890
E Dogg: Interesting. Hides the fact that this has happened before, other countries have done it, Vietnam invaded Cambodia in 1879. They did something good, because it was against a terrible, violent, fascist, racist regime, the Khmer Rouge.

1127
01:44:15.070 –> 01:44:20.230
E Dogg: But they did it, and they said, oh, it’s for humanitarian reasons. Humanitarian interventions, right? Like…

1128
01:44:20.550 –> 01:44:22.820
E Dogg: This is hotly debated in international law.

1129
01:44:22.990 –> 01:44:31.690
E Dogg: And so, yeah, I mean, I think it does boil down to real politic. I think the U.S. will not always be able to do this. It will eventually not be able to do this, won’t be able.

1130
01:44:31.690 –> 01:44:32.010
Kay: Sure.

1131
01:44:32.010 –> 01:44:35.009
E Dogg: this kind of power. And when it gets to that point.

1132
01:44:35.210 –> 01:44:37.969
E Dogg: it will do what England is doing, which is like, oh, hey.

1133
01:44:37.970 –> 01:44:45.179
Kay: We have these international laws. Interesting, yeah. And then we will suddenly become one of those countries.

1134
01:44:45.180 –> 01:44:45.610
E Dogg: rock.

1135
01:44:45.610 –> 01:44:46.810
Kay: Doesn’t judge other countries.

1136
01:44:47.030 –> 01:44:50.880
E Dogg: It’s kind of miraculous that we’ve given any sort of…

1137
01:44:51.230 –> 01:45:11.089
E Dogg: you know, the fact that we have given any sort of legitimacy or money or time or attention to the UN and other multilateral international organizations demonstrates that they must… we must be getting something out of it. And maybe it’s just moral leadership, but this is an administration that does not consider that moral leadership valuable.

1138
01:45:11.400 –> 01:45:27.879
E Dogg: And, you know, the results will speak for themselves. So we’ll see. I mean, the immediate result is you have a bad person not in power anymore. Yeah. And we didn’t kill him, we didn’t assassinate him, and we brought him to a court. I think those are positive things. The negative things are that the United States unilaterally

1139
01:45:28.120 –> 01:45:39.700
E Dogg: decided to do it without consulting any international partners, but they would try to stop us, because they don’t want us to succeed. China and Russia like the fact that there’s an irritant in our region.

1140
01:45:40.060 –> 01:45:43.830
E Dogg: Just like we like the fact that there’s an irritant for Russia.

1141
01:45:43.830 –> 01:45:44.470
Kay: Absolutely.

1142
01:45:44.470 –> 01:45:51.659
E Dogg: We like the fact there’s an irritant for China. We support those irritants, so why wouldn’t they support ours?

1143
01:45:51.660 –> 01:45:53.360
Kay: That’s a very logical point you make.

1144
01:45:53.360 –> 01:45:58.530
E Dogg: you’re not gonna ask them for permission, so I get it. I get why they did it this way. They did it this way because they could.

1145
01:45:58.680 –> 01:46:10.619
E Dogg: They try to justify it for a domestic audience, but it’s all domestic, right? The president didn’t publish this on any official channel. The president published this on his own social media platform and his own social media account.

1146
01:46:11.080 –> 01:46:18.770
E Dogg: Didn’t notify Congress, which is another norm, right? And then, although I agree, I think notification leaks

1147
01:46:19.130 –> 01:46:20.759
E Dogg: you know.

1148
01:46:20.760 –> 01:46:21.780
Kay: That’s interesting.

1149
01:46:21.780 –> 01:46:24.399
E Dogg: When it’s an operation I desperately want to succeed.

1150
01:46:24.890 –> 01:46:25.810
Kay: Right.

1151
01:46:25.810 –> 01:46:29.090
E Dogg: Congressional notification doesn’t seem all too important to me.

1152
01:46:29.090 –> 01:46:29.990
Kay: Yeah, yeah.

1153
01:46:29.990 –> 01:46:44.280
E Dogg: AFX was leaked. I mean, it’s, you know, anyway, whatever. The point… I mean, that’s my view. It’s complicated, right? It’s complicated. It’s not black and white. And if you hated Maduro, I could see why you’d be very happy. If you don’t give a shit about Venezuela, or the US companies.

1154
01:46:44.440 –> 01:46:54.790
E Dogg: whose contracts were violated, and you want us to follow international norms and have a rule of law that’s very strict, then yeah, I could see why you’re upset. I can see both sides.

1155
01:46:55.640 –> 01:47:12.309
Kay: It’s… it is fascinating, and thank you for that. That’s a very good… I think that’s a good, concise overview of how… just how messy it is. Now, that said, you, you have a nice day with your parents still here, so I want to let you get back to that. Like your hair, by the way, looking… looking real nice.

1156
01:47:12.310 –> 01:47:15.579
E Dogg: Hey, thanks, man! I did that thing where you don’t wash your hair.

1157
01:47:15.860 –> 01:47:20.240
Kay: Oh, good, yeah, that’s… I do that a lot, actually. It doesn’t work as well for me, unfortunately. I don’t have the…

1158
01:47:20.980 –> 01:47:26.790
Kay: that, Pantene body that I keep being promised, but, you know… I mean, gray hair.

1159
01:47:27.210 –> 01:47:29.090
E Dogg: I mean, you know, you have that greasy Italian hair.

1160
01:47:29.090 –> 01:47:32.480
Kay: All the oil weighs it all down.

1161
01:47:32.480 –> 01:47:34.079
E Dogg: Joke, that’s a joke.

1162
01:47:34.080 –> 01:47:43.169
Kay: It’s a stereotype. I probably do have… I wish I had more of that greasy hair. I think it’s… I think it’s my, Danish side that’s leading to my thin, thin hair.

1163
01:47:43.300 –> 01:47:58.500
Kay: Anyway… Humans, humans have received. Humans do. Humans do it. Great to see you, sir. We’ll have this posted soon. I’m gonna… I have the, system all running, so we should see this soon in your podcast player, and if you are listening and you like what

1164
01:47:58.650 –> 01:48:01.379
Kay: What we’re saying, and you are not a robot.

1165
01:48:01.520 –> 01:48:09.429
Kay: Please, like and subscribe, put a rating in Apple Podcasts for us, you know, like us on YouTube.

1166
01:48:09.430 –> 01:48:10.720
E Dogg: You are a robot.

1167
01:48:10.720 –> 01:48:12.790
Kay: Even if you are a robot, if you have some good thoughts yourself.

1168
01:48:12.790 –> 01:48:13.260
E Dogg: Right.

1169
01:48:13.260 –> 01:48:15.810
Kay: Yeah, maybe… maybe you’re a thoughtful AI.

1170
01:48:16.170 –> 01:48:16.790
Kay: Like it.

1171
01:48:16.790 –> 01:48:20.300
E Dogg: Robots, if you’re listening, Subscribe.

1172
01:48:20.340 –> 01:48:20.950
Kay: Please.

1173
01:48:21.060 –> 01:48:25.429
Kay: Yes, at least do that favor for us. Alright, we’ll talk to you later, we’ll see you next time.

1174
01:48:25.430 –> 01:48:26.500
E Dogg: Okay. Okay, bye-bye.