K: E. It is great to see your smiling face once again. Glad to have you join.
K: Join the pod. This is our 3rd recording.
K: Yes, and.
E: A screen into the void. Yeah.
K: It does feel like it.
E: I actually listened to our 1st episode. And I mean, I don't know if it's gonna make me sound like a narcissist, but I found it interesting.
K: You looked, you stared into the the mirror of of your
K: you're you're tantalized by the the voice you heard on the but.
E: You know what it did it? It reminded me of the scene in Interstellar, where Matthew Mcconaughey's character falls into the black hole.
K: It was like.
E: Super cool with it, I'm like, Oh, man, this is fine.
K: Yeah, I mean, you'd be cool if you were acting that out. I don't know if you'd be that.
E: I didn't listen the whole to the whole hour, because.
K: Okay.
E: Let's face it. Who's got that kind of time?
K: Well, I did. I must have that kind of time. I did listen to it just just for the sake of quality control. I took a walk around the neighborhood. It was a nice evening, and I thought, Well, let me put this on and I was only gonna listen to a few minutes. But I kind of got
K: engaged. I was like, well.
K: because again, I've done about 3 or 4 podcasts in in my day, I will be honest, like most of them have been about business.
E: Boo.
K: People I really didn't know very well.
K: I had one that was kind of more philosophical that's called cafe. Oh, I shouldn't say what it is. I'm gonna bleep that out because then they'll connect it to me.
E: Cafe, bullshit.
K: Gotta be bullshit and so I I have done enough of them to know.
K: You know what what I'd say is
K: in each time. It wasn't because they weren't okay. There was one podcast that was going nowhere. I did it for over a year. The guy who I was doing it with had no marketing skills. He had no interest in marketing.
K: so it literally got after a year and a half. I think we were at like 3 listeners, 3 downloads a week, which was probably us. Yeah, the other the other ones. I did one on AI recently with another guy, and we actually were getting
K: 2 or 300 downloads per episode at the end. And then he just flaked without really any kind of explanation. Why, so.
E: Is there a chance that he was an AI Bot.
K: There is a chance. There is a chance.
E: Him, in person.
K: I did not mean in person, but
E: Oh, shit.
K: That could be that could be. He was very handsome.
K: butchering. Was it a pig butchering scam? And they got tired of?
K: He's like that'd be funny he was when he couldn't sell me as crypto he gave up on me.
E: Hey, man? But seriously, this is another episode after you. Invested.
K: That would be such a dedicated.
E: Later later, this is a podcast okay, but last one, then I want to see you.
K: That would be true. Dedicated. He should get my buddy if he does a whole podcast with me and publishes it. Anyway. But he, anyway, that was that was fine. Actually, I was kind of like, all right. This is
K: this isn't really, you know. I learned a lot about AI from him because he was actually quite good at it. But what I would say is in each case.
K: if I had continued it
K: consistently with the with the person I think it was bound to grow. And in each time.
K: for whatever reason, the 2 of us would just kind of like, you know, I'd say, because I really didn't know these people very well. There wasn't much kind of to connect us, but what I was doing is, I was listening to ours in comparison. And I was like, you know, the the chemistry here is quite good.
K: If I do say so myself compared to my last podcast efforts, it's there's not like this kind of oh, there was sort of an awkwardness with the other ones, because I know you so well that's obviously not an issue. And most of our conversations. Yeah, most of our conversations.
E: Totally docked, and I don't mean that like I mean that like in ships not like.
K: Yeah.
E: I'm not. I am not myself a gay person, which is like fine. I mean, you know I don't have the abs for that, but I understand for my gay friends that docking well, you know what. Look it up. If you're listening to this.
E: Yeah, I don't even know what that one.
E: but that's not what I miss.
K: That's awesome.
E: Be that. But it's like a Platonic.
K: Platonic docking. Yeah.
K: A Platonic docking or toxic spoon.
E: They're like nautical or the nautical version, choose.
K: Interesting.
E: Your metaphor. I'm not going to tell you how to interpret my metaphor.
K: Is there a submarine involved in this.
E: They both work, and there's a huge amount of crossover between the sailor culture and you know what. Let's not even get into it. I don't want.
K: Well, you do have one. I noticed that you wear one earring. I don't know if that affects any of that lifestyle choice, but one year one ear is pierced, I mean.
E: I'm not. No, I I don't have any.
K: Oh, okay, I guess it was a. It looked like a it was a headset. I'm sorry.
E: High quality camera. That's why you.
K: That's what it is. Yes.
E: Disruptive couch pattern behind me on purpose to help.
K: I think we can safely say, even though we're anonymous, that your residence in background is you're really working that. Well, I'm I'm impressed for the second time in a row, and it's much quieter this time than last time, so well done.
E: Yeah. Yeah. The thin.
K: Has been reduced.
E: You should also turn this podcast into a word of the day podcast.
K: I like it, for the people who have given up on learning
K: because of AI will help them.
E: Why, look at a word of the day calendar for 5 seconds when you could listen to this for an hour. And
E: yeah, would.
K: Exactly. That's right.
E: This is an excellent segue, if I may, if I may myself give myself a compliment.
K: Take it, take us.
E: Into this AI Chatbot. This is the free version of Gemini.
K: Oh, okay.
E: It's not a commercial. This is just one I use because I'm too cheap to buy another one, but I will soon. Once my cash flow is improved.
E: What does the word din mean?
E: Den can have a few different meanings. It's most commonly used to describe a wild animal's lair or resting place like a bear's den. Okay, hold on, man, hold on! Hold on! Hold on! No, no, hold on! You heard the word den. What I meant is din, you know, like over the hushed din of the room you could hear him eat potato chips. What does that one mean?
E: Din that refers to a loud, unpleasant, and prolonged noise. Think of the clatter of construction or the roar of a crowd.
E: Okay, I just want to say that 1st of all, I think this AI bot everyone's been saying. Oh, it's racist because of XYZ.
E: Obviously thought I had an accent, and I'm slightly insulted.
K: Yeah, I could. I?
E: I'm a.
K: See that!
E: English is my native tongue.
K: Right. You have a very strong accent.
E: Right anyway.
K: Can sometimes barely understand you, but.
E: Day.
K: Thank you, thank you. And if you didn't understand E's accent, it was din, not din.
K: Should pretty much the same thing.
E: Pronounced it was like Scottish. Anyway, I'm I don't.
K: It was Irish, I think.
E: Trying to.
K: Yeah, we didn't. Is that what you mean?
E: I didn't mean to take it to a racial place. Also, I mean, like an accent doesn't come from your race. Obviously your ethnicity potentially.
K: You know.
E: No one knows, no one cares.
K: Yeah, I'm not going to go down a rabbit hole about that. But I was just watching a video of these white kids that were that grew up in Southeast Asia, and it was fascinating to watch them speak.
E: I think I saw the same thing.
K: Yeah, it's amazing to see them like
K: it's cool. I don't know. I just admire that. Anyway, it just shows like how little any of this matters. But the point is.
E: And also you get bonus points, because at this point you're justifying white people, which is.
K: That's true.
E: It is less okay now than it used to be under this administration.
K: Yeah, that's why.
E: You know, I'm definitely not going to get political because I find that shit boring. I mean, not really. I mean, I mean political, the way people do use it. I mean, politics. Right is like, how how does power work? Right? So everything is politics. If you talk about economics like we do. If you talk about.
K: Yeah.
E: Culture like we do, and that is politics. But I mean, you know, in an ostensible ideological like, you know, this stuff. This party is good. This party is bad. I do find that kind of boring, and there's a ton out there. So.
E: But anyway, speaking of that, I did want to talk about something, if you don't mind.
K: Yeah. So we have a couple of topics this week that we thought we'd get into and I think one
K: one thing that I'm always interested is the effective
K: these days. AI AI on the on the world, and how it's affecting
K: livelihoods industries is affecting me as an entrepreneur. I'm both utilizing AI, and yet threatened by it myself, because it could be very disruptive to my own livelihood. But you were mentioning there's not just an AI disruption going on. There's also
K: kind of like an overarching political disruption.
K: which I thought was a good point, and I think last week there was you know, a lot of a lot of issues or not a lot of issues, but a lot of news about
K: layoffs in the government. And so we thought we'd talk about that.
E: Yeah, I mean, I just in work overall. Right? I think one of the you know, one of the reasons we started.
E: I think kind of recording these things. These conversations is because I I am hungry for a conversation about culture and the shifting political, cultural kind of like landscape.
E: because I feel like most people, you know, there's this like middle. I don't know what it is like. 60% of people
E: aren't the top 20 aren't the bottom 20 of just people who like you know, what does it mean to be like a man? Nowadays you and I are men, and when we say that we don't mean this in this hypercharged way. Where, like, we're staking a claim as to like.
K: You know what other people should be doing with their masculinity or lack of it.
K: Hunt your meat with a boat, arrow.
E: Yeah, I just, you know, like
E: I do. I think of myself as a man, and I think you do, too. And so like without, you know, I don't seek to define what anyone else's.
K: I will say this, though, as a little offshoot, my wife was telling me about a book.
K: about how to raise your kids in nature, and the father
K: takes his kids out in Alaska into the wild, and they don't eat any meat in their whole household unless they hunted it and killed it themselves.
K: And I guess he's a psychologist because he's writing books about this, but he also all their meetings.
E: By the way, as you say this, these kids are going to be grow perfectly normal. No problems there.
E: Please continue as they're saying.
K: What I was listening to this.
E: The wilds of a lot.
K: Yeah, exactly. And it's not just. It's not just, I think, with a gun. I think they do most of it with bows and so I was. As my wife
K: is telling me this.
E: My wife.
K: We were on a we were on a camping trip, and she's telling me this how this and she's doing it with a lot of admiration, and I just thought.
K: I'm not a real man.
K: Oh, here's it's like, here's it is.
E: Why don't yeah take our?
E: That's right into the wilderness.
K: Isn't that interesting, Kay, that he does this? I'm like.
E: Right, right.
K: It is interesting.
E: I wonder, I wonder what his life is like. I wonder what he looks.
K: Yeah.
E: Up short of that.
K: Thinks that correct.
K: I do think that if I were to tell her, sweetie, I'm gonna start
K: hunting all of our meat with with a bow and arrow. I think she'd be kind of like, yeah, part of her would be like, well, that's kind of impractical, Kevin. But a part of her would be like.
K: I'm very turned on. Let's you know this is this is exciting. So.
E: To me. This is like the difference between when people I don't know man like
E: that's why it's so kind of annoying to be a public figure which I have, I am in no danger of being.
E: but when.
K: Say you see.
E: Figure. Well, public figure says something like.
E: you know, I'm just trying to figure out how
E: even what you just said right like my wife is talking about this person. And I'm like, Okay, well, I guess what's the real man is going to be like all these, I mean, because there's so many opinions out there, but like what tends to come to the forefront or the most extreme opinions, I think most men would be like, yeah, I kind of know what you mean? Yeah. Well, you know, I am an advocate of the idea that there aren't just 2 sides to everything. I think if you have 5 people. You have 5 unique positions on something, and
E: to see the difference between all 5, you'd have to get granular. But if you just zoom up a couple. You know, zoom out a couple levels. It's like, yeah, man, I know exactly what you're talking about. Like, yeah, yeah, I have also had this thing where my wife is like. Oh, look at this reel of like
E: this shirtless, tough guy with his kids.
K: Yeah, I'm kind of like, okay? Well.
E: You just could have told me about it.
K: Yeah, you could just, you know, just share that with me. I mean, I can pull a good shot of espresso. Is that, you know is that kind of similar to the killing of a wild animal. You know.
E: Yeah, exactly. I do other things to provide for my children. I you know I use the words.
K: There you go, teaching words.
E: Less sexy.
K: Less sexy but important particular type of person.
K: We'll have a whole episode. I wanna have a whole episode that I think we talked about before we started.
E: Your life, undermining your masculinity.
K: That would be one. That's another one.
E: Do a whole season.
K: But we'll talk about. I think we talked a little bit about this before we started recording about my theory about the the Vikings and and overpowering
K: young, softy boys that could have become very brilliant scientists if they were allowed to thrive in cultures and Christianity. I believe that was, that was my theory.
K: And anyway, I don't think we get to record.
E: We're wet right now.
K: Yeah, but that's another. That's a a discussion for another day. Let's talk about
E: Powerful Vikings, holding down their men with their powerful forearms.
K: Exactly.
E: Bring them to the ground, their hot breath on their okay. I'm sorry I.
K: This could be a whole AI generated. You know. Video, here, I think you got you got the
K: got the chops for it. So we're talking about
E: Work.
K: We're talking about work.
E: And losing your work.
K: Hmm.
E: And so here's my.
K: Identity.
K: But I I think there's an existential crisis.
E: Yeah.
K: Aspect going on there too, but.
E: There's a lot going on, maybe things I don't even understand fully right.
K: I know.
E: Study it or anything. But here's the context, right? Just.
E: you know, I tend to think that my job is stable because I think, like, well, I'm making unique contributions.
E: I write and analyze on a variety of topics in the international realm. And there's a variety of readership that kind of keeps me employed.
E: And so, but because it's politics and economy overseas, it tends to be a, you know, a huge
E: Government audience.
K: Yeah, makes sense people, either people working in the government or people working for the government.
E: And I'm not freelance. But I work for, you know, an organization that could makes their living off of.
E: This information getting into the hands of the right people.
E: and then people will gladly, gladly pay you for that. So it's really great, and it gives me a sense of autonomy, but also stability. It's like a balance.
E: It's not as it's not as unstable as working for like a major newspaper, because it's very niche.
E: But you know, recently, right? I mean, anyone who's worked in contracting anyone who works adjacent to government work. Even people who are like physically co-located.
E: If you are, for example, someone working
E: in the service industry next to a military base.
E: if you are someone who works within like a 200 mile radius of Washington, DC. Even the stuff you don't think is directly related.
K: Yeah.
E: To to government, because it's not the government paying your salary
E: through either funding or through like the domino effect, a reduction in government activity will result in a direct decrease in what you're making, and eventually cause your organization to start laying people off as a reaction to the loss of government interest or audience or work.
E: And so, you know, I'm kind of adjacent to that. I you know
E: I'm not in fear of like a layoff anytime soon. But you know, seeing in the news usaid right, they got shut down overnight, and that was an agency that got stood up with Congressional approval. If I'm not mistaken, and their money comes from Congress right.
E: Group, and to see that get shit overnight is a new thing.
E: right? And as many new things tend to scare people, it kind of scared me a little bit. I'm like, Wow, if that can happen, what else could happen right.
K: Yeah. A lot of people who are in Ngos, I guess, in nonprofits probably would have.
E: There was a ton of knock on effects, and I have friends overseas who work on contracts that were like indirectly related to aid. For example, people working for UN bodies, right? People working for UN bodies. I didn't know this before this started happening. But they told me, like, actually like 80% of the funding is from aid, even though it's like, maybe the World migration
E: organization, or whatever it is, or or the office for the high, high the office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights
E: depending on the country you're in and the activity. Well, a lot of that comes from government funding specifically the Us. Funding the Us. Funds. A lot of these things. I've been overseas a lot, and I know a lot of people who work in contracting in the government, and I've always I have personally always thought that a lot of these contracts were superfluous.
E: So when I 1st heard about Doge, and the idea of making the government more efficient. I'm kind of like, oh, wow! That's actually not a that's a cool idea. I think most people thought that, too. Yeah, I think most people. And I think most people who don't know the specifics like you or I might do just because
E: worked adjacent to these things. Most people tend to think of Federal workers as being, I think, kind of like lazy and like they.
K: Respective.
E: Jobs forever. They think of maybe, like A, you know, like a bureaucrat sitting in an office in the Dmv. Or something right?
E: And which is fun.
K: And that's often the people that we, as civilians meet
K: is is like those kind of organizations. Or you can look at the social security organization which is.
E: That's right, or whatever.
K: Fairly unorganized.
E: People working in the metro don't give a shit.
K: Right.
E: Many of them I mean, I've lately, especially lately, not like maybe 10 or 20 years ago. But lately I've actually had really great experiences in the Dmv. In a couple of States. But anyway, my point is just, I'm saying all.
K: California.
E: Doing all this to say that I've recently gotten spooked by these headlines, you know aid. And then they laid off, I think, was like, you know, Doge, and that all these things and early retirements, which is voluntary. So it doesn't kind of spook me. But then.
E: you know, they got rid of aid in an entire agency. Right? They're gone now. They used they exist a few months ago. No, they don't.
K: Yeah. Isn't the Department of Education mostly all.
E: 20,000 there, I think. Cdc. Industry
E: like, or what was it? Health and human services.
K: Yeah.
E: All, all of these Federal workers right?
E: that have been laid off. And then with the State Department last week, which got a lot of headlines. And I end up going into a rabbit hole and seeing the videos of people actually like walking out and stuff and.
K: It's been, you know. I watch like the Pbs newshour and a couple of other outlets. I mean, even fox news has covered this pretty well. I like to watch a lot of different news.
E: And so, but I mean people have been covering this widely, some with glee, right, and others mournfully, and others kind of like warning like, Hey, man.
E: you know, you're getting rid of people in these different things. So study
E: diseases or people who are working on national security issues that you're going to need these people
E: and even dhs, I think, had fired a bunch of the people working their intelligence units.
E: And so to me. Right?
E: I do. I do feel like well, there's a right way to make anything more efficient, but if you just stop lopping off parts of it, it's drastic. It's sudden, and it it breaks these previously existing barriers where before you couldn't do what they're doing now.
E: But now they just seem to have either, like I think the public perception of not exactly knowing what Federal workers do makes people okay with it.
E: The fact that this administration is pretty bullish on executive power, and that Congress is pretty willing to let the President do whatever.
K: Yeah.
E: Once that combination right, whether.
K: Well, it's also showing that they don't really have any
K: recourse that maybe people assumed that they did have right? Right. I mean, they.
E: What's.
K: Technically do, but they don't really.
E: Yeah, also, like, when I see these law firms being sued, and then.
E: I guess. My, you know, from my ground level seat, I thought, like what? But they're a law firm. They have lawyers, and they're rich
E: right?
K: A ton of money, and time seem very powerful.
E: They can't defend themselves in court. That's scary right.
K: Same.
E: And it's not that I agree or disagree right? You know I'm eager to have someone explain to me why these law firms are so terrible. I'm sure I mean I you know
E: I think there's a lot of legal fraud and waste, but I mean.
K: Boy.
E: The fact that it can can be done so quickly. And can be done with just
E: a flick of the pen like.
K: Yes.
E: The President having so much concentrated power in a way that I just haven't really seen in my own lifetime.
K: Well, we we have never seen that we've always seen.
K: We've always seen a a restraint by the executive branch in our lifetimes, and we thought that that was because the the misconception is, we thought that was because he had.
E: Now.
K: Limited power, and we were always told this nonsense about checks and balances and what it. What a lovely thing! But the pro! The truth is that it was all fairly a big sham. That's kind of what I've come to realize. It.
E: The institutionally, normatively.
K: Yeah.
E: There's been this like, Yeah, there's been like, Oh, the President won't do that because it's an independent agency. But like.
K: A year.
E: Agencies that the President gets to select who goes on them. And then and then I went into Rabbit Hole because I kept hearing the news say
E: it's an independent agency, like like the fed is, or.
E: That isn't part of the executive branch, but the President gets to select the Fed chairperson.
E: The what? What is it? The Sec
E: independent agency. However, the President gets to pick the it's like a, you know. So but so to me it's like, Wait, are they in the executive branch, or are they not? And if they are, why doesn't the President get to pick?
E: And in the past? So if you really look into it like I'm a lay person. If you look into it, it's like, Oh, it seems like the only barrier has been
E: that, you know, a broad base of political actors in Congress and in other places
E: would push back too hard, normatively.
K: The right like.
E: Why can't you, you know, be on the be at a restaurant and stand up and yell.
E: and then start picking your notes. Well, a big part of that is normatively, I mean, they might try to kick you out. But
E: you know most people don't. Most people behave in the public sphere.
K: Correct.
E: Because of norms, and they're afraid of being looked at askance.
K: Absolutely.
E: I'll say that for the next.
K: And maybe that's why the Presidents have been careful before is that they thought this would be the downfall of their career if they did.
E: And I've been in a lot of Latin American countries where they have a democracy on paper. They have a constitution on paper and a cabal of corrupt actors runs things and has completely
E: taking over Congress, the courts and the executive. And it's only democracy on paper. They rubber stamp
E: things that are created just for the sake of enhancing the power and money.
K: Yes.
E: And I never thought our country was like that. There's aspects of it. I'm not naive, right? However.
E: I just it was. I didn't realize until recently, maybe the last 5 or 10 years. It's the norms that hold all this together. We have plenty of laws, but it's the norms.
E: That kind of create this cohesive democracy that we have, and most people are tired of it. Most people are tired of not
E: perceiving that they are gaining out of the democracy. They've voted for a person who is an outsider, who they think sounds like they do, and hence has the sincerity and the will to do things that are good for them, because insiders don't make these changes because it's not in their interest, because they're corrupt. You hired an outsider. But you know if if it's the case, that the outsider is just as corrupt, if not more corrupt.
K: Yes.
E: And breaks norms and takes over
E: in ways that centralizes power in ways we have not seen recently.
E: Then it's not going to help these people out at all.
E: And now these people have selected someone
E: who, they who they thought, had their interests in mind. But it turns out that, just like all the previous politicians, does not. They're actually beholden to a political group
E: and not, you know, the people who voted for them, which would be kind of the same thing as always. So it's interesting to me. All this is to say that the shifting political landscape of the centralization of power in the Executive, the acquiescence of the Congress and the courts, the Supreme Court, and the Congress to allow the centralization of power
E: that has resulted in mass layoffs of of something right adjacent to what I do
E: has spooked me into thinking like.
K: Yeah.
E: Wow like, I don't want to talk about the centralization of the executive power and all this other stuff. I think that's an interesting topic. We can talk about some other time. But then, like
E: this is the context of men. It's kind of spooked me a little bit, because I know people that's affected.
E: And I thought, like, Oh, wow! Maybe is my job secure because it's not something I think about every day. And I've had a lot of jobs, you know, like I worked as an engineer, I've worked in sales. I've worked in business development.
E: Now, I do a lot of writing and analyzing
E: and produce kind of products that kind of like justify my existence and keep money in my pocket.
E: and as long as there's a readership I am employed.
E: But it's to me I never felt this vulnerable like.
E: That's good.
E: The political landscape is shifting so quickly, and even private actors like law firms, and even, you know, libraries, local governments are changing the way they lay out contracts and hire people.
E: and it's all like
E: it's all changing very quickly, and that has spooked me, and then I thought like, Wait a second. Why am I so spooked now? I've changed careers, I mean, I've even gotten laid off before.
E: I think one of the 1st jobs I had as an engineer. I got laid off because completely out of my control, we had a bad
E: declare bankruptcy, and then they had to like
E: and just stay afloat right, and I didn't take it personally, and I wasn't even scared. I was kind of excited. I was kind of like, oh, man, I get to look for another job now.
E: and I've even left jobs to pursue completely different changes of of what I do for a living.
K: Yeah.
E: And and that was exciting and scary. But now I'm just scared. I don't know if it's because I have.
K: Yeah.
E: Then a couple kids.
E: I don't know why, but like.
K: That's probably it. I mean, I I was think we were talking. Were we talking last time about?
K: I think I was telling the story about how the moment I had a child is when our business took a 50% hidden revenue.
E: That's right.
K: And I was walking around looking up in the sky.
K: Poor answers, and I don't think I would have felt half.
K: or even a quarter of that terror.
K: had I not just had we not just gotten pregnant? And you just had a baby recently? I won't say too much about that, but I just know you. You are a
K: a father again, and that's an interesting time in your life, because you feel and I've I have children. You feel this huge
K: responsibility and weight on your shoulders?
K: And I think, as a man, too, that's just just a natural aspect of it. I'm not saying, women have their absolutely have their own weight on their shoulders. So we both. But I think any kind of time you're a parent. It's just this. It's this.
K: at least, if it's a perception of like, you know, I mean.
K: we were kind of talking about
K: a bit of feminism, sexism, all that stuff last time, and I think one thing that occurred to me was
K: when you're having a baby the natural way. I know there's lots of new modern ways to do this, but the old fashioned way, where you know you're a couple, and a woman gets pregnant and a man is not pregnant. Then.
E: How dare you? That's.
K: I know I was. I.
K: Sorry for the hate speech, but when you're in that situation it's a rare thing these days, but when you're.
E: I don't want to keep it. I don't want to keep interrupting you, but I just really love the sentence. Sorry for that.
K: Sorry for lazy. Yeah, thank you.
E: That might be the, you know I'm shopping for I'm shopping for titles for my autobiography.
K: Maybe that'll be yeah. Maybe that'll get grab some attention on the Youtube. What's up.
E: Was that that reoccurring joke on Brooklyn 9 9, or used to be the.
K: Yeah.
E: Joke was like, name of your sex tape.
E: Sorry for the anti-semitic stuff. I really.
K: Yeah.
E: I can't really can't come unless.
K: Comment on that.
E: That.
K: That's so funny. But yeah, I mean, if if you're in that situation which which many are then
K: just practically on a very nuts and bolts level.
K: You would expect that a
K: mother who has just had a child needs to give her full attention, or a good amount of her attention to that child's physical and mental health, and all that stuff for a long time, and easier to have one person going out and and bringing in some money at that time, or doing the work that needs to be done to bring, put food on the table, so she has the best opportunity to do that. So, just from a completely practical point of view, it makes sense that there's a lot more pressure on a new parent, especially a new father.
E: Yeah.
K: Bring home the bacon. As I say.
E: That's it. Yeah. And it's not like.
K: Offenders any vegetarians out there? I apologize.
E: Very nice, very nice. Well, here's here's the thing that
E: you know. My point of view is this, like I come from a place of high tolerance like my conception of. If I have any values at all, do I have any values? Is that you know? I
E: I believe that we're in a social contract that's constantly being renegotiated.
E: It sadly does not include 100% of everyone living under one political jurisdiction.
E: You know, if you can get 80% of the people to sign up for the Social Contract if if even begrudgingly. I think you probably
E: creating a pretty good society, 100% would be nice. So this is a nice target.
E: But I really do believe that, like, you know, we have to live together.
E: and society exists to enhance our lives, and to create common cause, and to spread out the risk and to increase the benefit.
E: And I believe in that that should be done, you know with consent and with free will, self-determination.
E: That's why I love the United States. That's what I'm from this country. I was born in American. I love. I love our entire
E: political experiment and the values behind that organizing principle as flawed as it is right. I mean, I don't know if it was, was it Lincoln, or was it King? Jr. That's embarrassing. Who referred to it as a promissory note right.
K: Institution is a.
E: Promissory note that has.
K: And then fully cashed in. It sounds more like Martin Luther King, Jr. Than me.
E: But that's a concept, right? I mean, what a beautiful idea! It's not perfect. It doesn't get executed. I mean, our history is a is a
E: shows that.
E: But, like I'm sorry, man, I've I've lived in a lot of other countries. My parents are both immigrants. I'm familiar with the countries they're from one's from Central America. One's from Europe
E: like
E: you should see what it's like when you don't have those values. It's pretty grim. That's because that's how humans are man like, you know, our ape cousins because we're apes.
E: Our ape cousins are, you know, you have the ones that are like murdering each other when they run into a new tribe. Right? Those are chimpanzees.
E: and the other ones were just constantly fighting for dominance, like I don't know we did pretty good as an animal species of.
K: Yeah.
E: Create some stability and some benefit. We're all over the place. So like to me, the American experiment
E: is fascinating. That's what we have in common, our values right? I've been to countries where, like.
E: you know, you don't. You may not look like you're from there
E: because they all have, like, you know, 98% of people are the same ethnicity. For example, right? Like China, right? 98%, I believe, are Han ethnicity.
E: So to me. It's like, Wow! What a what a great model that we all bound together by these values, and that you can live in a state that more carefully reflects your values. You've moved around a couple of States. So have I.
E: And I like the States I've been in. Each one of them has my pluses and bonuses. But all this is to say that I come from a place of tolerance.
E: I come from a place of democracy where we kind of like, there's a scrum of what our government is going to do and be about. And I like the fact that in the United States, you know, that happens often at the local level, at the federal level.
K: Right.
E: It means having to tolerate it when the outcome isn't what you wanted.
E: and it also means having to tolerate other people's views. And I also think that way. Culturally, I have cultural values so like for me, my preference is, you know, I prefer that my that my wife has a conception of our gender roles what she perceives my gender role to be. I'm like 80% like, yeah, I agree, that sounds great. I'm signing up for that right.
E: and she has signed up for her gender role, which I think is fine by me, and we found each other. That's how it's supposed to work, you know, if you think like. Oh, let's be this androgynous couple that like makes everything gender neutral, and we've eliminated gender bias words from our vocabulary. I think that's great. I think you should have that. And there's definitely tons of places. You could live and do that and be.
E: and really make that your whole personality, if you like, I think, is great, and I think that's great, that you can do that.
E: and you can't do that in every country. So I'm glad that people think that way. So. But you and I, I think when we're talking about like, you know.
E: I'm feeling anxiety about work, because I'm the sole breadwinner.
E: It's not a complaint, and we're not making a normative determination for other people.
E: Right? That's how that's the life we live. That's how we feel. That's our, and that's our preference. We like that right? We wouldn't have chosen it if it wasn't for that. So when we're talking about like. Oh, I, as a man, feel anxiety about providing for my family. It's not because we think other men should feel that way. It's because that's how we feel, and to us it's kind of partially tied to being men, but it's partially tied to other. It's tied to a whole bunch of stuff.
E: and I agree with you that you know my gender role that I perceive, and my wife perceives. You know it really is born out of like a practical like. Well, look.
E: there's all this work to do in our household.
E: We need money to do stuff right?
E: That's a reality. And but we also need someone to do the
E: kid stuff to do the house stuff.
E: And so we have sat down and very intentionally split it up, based on what do you like doing when you sit down and split the house chores. It's like, Okay, well, I actually like washing baby bottles for my little baby girl. My wife prefers to take the 1st shift when the baby girl's going to bed, because it requires a lot of attention. She likes staying up late, anyway, so she'll do that I'll go to bed. I wake up, and I take over around 4 or 5 in the morning.
E: but that's my preference. I would rather knock out 4 or 5 h of sleep, and then take over.
E: And I love. I love washing baby bottles, and she likes changing diapers more than I do. So this is really great practical
E: split of the work, and that includes to your point.
E: Well, I'm okay, being the person that externally goes out and get the money
E: and cause I find it fulfilling. I found a way to do that for the time being. Knock on wood that's very fulfilling for me and engaging and then she
E: finds way to engage, too. She's like a to some influencer stuff on social media.
E: Make some money that way. But in the last couple of years has turned mostly internally.
E: to make sure our our family and our home is a great place right.
K: Well, I think a lot of this stuff is.
E: At, we.
K: Is driven. Go ahead. Sorry. Let's finish your last statement.
E: Well, my final thought is like she has a lot of anxiety about her role in all of that right.
K: Hmm! That's.
E: To her about it.
E: So! And I talked to her about my anxiety with my part of it right.
K: Yeah.
E: As
E: each each division of labor comes with its own anxieties, and so mine is. Oh, shit! I could lose my job. I might lose my job tomorrow. Where does that.
K: Yes.
E: You know that's scary to me. What am I going to do? How do I transition an entire career? I mean, I've transitioned entire career before. But how do you do that again.
K: Well, okay. So a couple of things.
E: That was.
K: Came to me as you were talking to me, and they're kind of
K: related and kind of not. But the 1st thing that occurred to me as you were talking about roles and stuff is.
K: we kind of take for granted the fact that these gender roles
K: were arbitrary because we look at them. Now, in our society, we think, well, why should a man be the one going out? Why couldn't it just be as easily a woman?
K: And we assumed that the reason it wasn't that way was because people in the past were sexist.
K: Just that's it. They were just sexist bastards. But actually, if you look at reality, it's not always so simple.
K: Basically, we are able to have that luxurious. We're able to have the luxury of that opinion because of technology technology is what changes
K: societies. And if you go back 500 years, what you're going back to is a place in which most people weren't living beyond the age of about 35.
K: So if you're gonna have kids.
K: you gotta have them early because you're not gonna make it wait till you're 35 like I did. Actually, I was 39 when I had my 1st kids in 500 years ago. If I had waited till 39 I could have been killed by a bacterial infection that I got at 2025. That would be the end of Kevin, and there would be no
K: yep more.
K: Kevin Mini Kevins, to go on. That's 1 aspect the other aspect would be.
K: There's really no such thing as a condom back there. Back then. So you are likely going to get pregnant.
E: And when you are pregnant as a as a young woman in her teenage years, you are going to you're going to be in a situation in which.
K: It would probably be easier for a man to go out and either farm or make money and bring home food, because guess what you're probably going to get pregnant again, and you're going to have like 5 or 6 of those, and then it becomes harder and harder for the woman to arbitrarily decide. Okay, I have 6 children, hey? You know what, husband? I'll go make the money. You stay home.
K: That was a harder decision to make along with the fact that we didn't even really have any technology around
K: around like periods. Let's just say menstrual cycles. So when a woman had a menstrual cycle. It was not. Just stick a stick, a pad up, you know, up there. Stick a any kind of other a tampon whatever you really.
E: I also don't know how it works. Kevin.
K: Yeah, I'm just like.
E: I'm checking everyone, you know. Turkey.
K: I think about my biology. No, I'm there. There really wasn't any technology related. Any modern technology that we take for granted, related to tampons related to pads related to any kind of menstrual cycle gear that you could.
E: It was a cup made out of bark.
K: It. It may have been, or you may have just been like at home.
K: I hate to say just kind of you. I you know we don't know. I'm guessing. Most people don't know.
E: Eating out.
K: I will say you probably were just at home bleeding, and and there may have been only so much you wanted to do. It may not have been the day that you wanted to go out to the, to the blacksmith workshop and start hammering to make some tools, so there are practical reasons why
K: why that occurred, that this did this?
K: basically this distinction between a male and a female. Why was that happening? Why was one more easily geared towards going out and doing hard labor, and the other one was not. Now, I'm not saying that's necessarily the right thing, but that is just the way evolution happened. Maybe if you go back to.
E: Yeah.
K: Historic days before civilization.
K: You could, you could argue that there could have been a better dynamic in which you know sometimes the males hunting, sometimes the females hunting. Maybe there was a little more flexibility there, but in in terms of like the last couple 1,000 years, or many thousands of years. That's how it became. Now, we developed a lot of this technology. We got we developed birth control. We developed lots of amazing things in the past couple 100 years. And I think it's sadly, I think we forgot how impactful that technology has been. And so we've now are sitting here with all this technology saying.
K: why were those old people so sexist? It doesn't make any sense. They just arbitrarily decide to make men work and women. Not. That's not fair, but we have to also look at the society in the past with with a perspective that's realistic for their time, not just for our time. And I think that's what most good historians would say. So.
E: 1st of all, I don't, and I think you know this. I don't believe in evolution or history.
K: Buying them.
K: In fact, I'm joking. I'm joking.
K: You believe more in the.
E: A very dumb thing.
K: Creation.
E: People who don't. I don't want to insult people who do not believe in evolution, but that's it's a dumb thing. I mean, you know.
E: debate me. I think it's fine. By the way.
E: I really believe in evolution. I'd be really terrible at defending it intellectually. So you know, I look forward to someone I look forward to like a really smart charismatic creation. Yeah, making me look stupid and.
K: Maybe I may use the wrong word, because evolution I meant more of just like what naturally.
E: We're just we're.
K: Trend that naturally happens.
E: Lay people. We're not. We're not trying to be assholes. I mean, you didn't say birth person, which I found very offensive. But
E: What do you mean? The.
K: The money!
K: Is that what you're like?
K: Sorry?
E: Then that would have been a very.
K: Tell me, what's that woman's name? The Harry Potter.
E: If you, if you had grown up and like, you know.
E: if you had grown up in austere like
E: 1st people, times coming out of like Africa, and you're like the first.st I don't know Homo sapien to see like the Andes, or I'm sorry, and the Dolomites, or whatever. And you're like, Oh, wow! So is Europe.
E: You know, you're you're we are closer
E: to nature in that. Technology allows us to have a distance from nature, although, I mean, I have this really stupid, abstract argument that everything is nature. But whatever let's get past that.
E: because I mean, we manipulated the atoms to make plastics and stuff, using chemical processes and all the things in plastics come from nature. So how can you argue? Something is not natural. But okay, whatever let's get past that for a second. Let's talk like normal people, because that's not how I normally talk.
E: If you're closer to nature, survival is
E: key on your list of things to do.
E: you are less likely to be like, you know what I think I identify as like a different gender also. What is gender also is it socially constructed also critical thinking? Also, you know Hume and the other philosophers about like the the whole, the whole, you know.
E: foundation of knowledge
E: that doesn't happen, you know, it's basically it's very animalistic. And I don't mean that as a
E: I mean that as a knock, I mean that as a like as a very survival minded. Yeah, very lack of self-consciousness, like
E: what has to happen here. Right? And I can easily imagine that. Like.
E: yeah, when you're close to survival
E: you, be. You're very practical about everything.
K: Yes.
E: And you're probably you're less introspective about everything.
K: Absolutely.
E: Right and I, and to.
K: A luxury of a society that has figured out how to survive
K: with massive amounts of of abundance that you get. If you look at all the historical philosophers. They often came from those civilizations that had just kind of like. Well, we cracked the code on on being able to be super efficient with survival. We're not living like you say, day to day we have an abundance, and that gives you the luxury
K: to criticize the people who have often figured out how to
K: make that efficiency possible, and say, This is bullshit.
K: There it is, which is so fun, ironic.
E: This is interesting, right? This is interesting because I, my model of the world, works similarly to what you described, which is like a lot of what societies create, because societies are constantly forming and reforming
E: and then ending, and then starting, and the culture that a society has
E: to a certain extent ends up. You know, it's like the keyboard on your computer. It's path dependent.
E: It's not like someone sits down and says, Hey, what's the like? Ideal society here. Let's design it. No, it's
E: there was something before you showed up, and you're working with that.
E: I I don't have to tell you this, and although if there are any nerds listening, besides, you and I, when we re listen to this.
K: Hmm.
E: You, and I know that the keyboard is not ideally laid out for how friends work with their fingers. It's laid out that way because of typewriters, because they couldn't have commonly used letters together, and the little arms would hit each other. I used a typewriter when I was a kid, and I know that from actual using it.
E: So if you had to redesign the keyboard you would do it differently. You would lay out.
K: And I think there are people.
E: I've seen these stupid keyboards, Kevin. I'm not impressed. I would rather destroy my wrists than give them
E: any sort of.
K: Right.
E: I'm sorry. I just had like a gay moment, and I mean that not as an insult. I mean, I don't. I never use that word pejoratively. There was this very
E: straight. I don't know what the number is. 86.
E: I'm straight. I'm at least an 86.
K: So there's a 14% chance for me.
E: It's not a hundred percent scale.
K: Okay.
E: I don't wanna say what the scale is, because I might. I don't wanna expose too much about my.
E: There's a very good looking man, with an excellent physique and beautiful hair.
K: Oh, that's right. You're at the residence inn.
E: And it's raining outside, and he just kind of like pushed his hair back over and kind of like. And I'm like, am I?
E: Am IA little gay? What what is this scale? I don't know. I just had that thought, and I wouldn't say it's troubling because it doesn't trouble me, but it's kind of like, you know. It's kind of when you get nudged a little bit, and you're like, No, stop.
K: Don't let them. Don't let them get through your fingers.
E: Trying to stop trying to make me dumping about who I am.
K: Go, talk.
K: Because this may be the last chance. You, you know.
E: I throw it.
K: Sometimes.
E: It dipped. All I'm saying is, it dipped a little bit like a 9. I became like a 76. It became like a 76 straight.
E: I went from 86 plus to like a 74 minus.
K: Yeah.
E: But it popped back up. He's gone. Everything's fine, Kevin. I'm back to 86, maybe 87.
K: Oh, good! Alright! So now!
E: To, as I try to assure myself I know who I am.
K: That's right.
E: Well, so here's the deal. I have not forgotten what I was talking about.
K: Yeah. You were talking about Saudi. You're talking about. Scared it out of me, too.
E: I wasn't looking. By the way, it was like a very quick.
K: I don't know what that says about me and the numbers I've posited up until now. But
K: let's let's since we did forget. Let's move to this.
E: I didn't. I didn't freak. I didn't forget.
K: Yeah, we're right.
E: Got that thought, and we can move on to a much better topic about other than me. Fearing about my job is is this, is that I think you're right. I think
E: the values a culture has tends to come from its necessities, but as it shifts and moves, it shifts and moves in ways that are impractical, just like the keyboard. Our keyboard it has gotten to an impractical place.
E: but it's actually pretty practical in the sense that it's being mass produced, and it's just easier to do that.
E: So to me, you know, we have all these leftover cultural norms that came from a very practical place in the past like you mentioned.
E: And so the act of questioning those norms and then changing them, hey, guys, we've we're past the moment of meeting this. I think that's a design. That's what I always thought the political spectrum was supposed to be about. Conservatives are less interested in changing things because they think there's a wisdom and a practicality to these existing norms, and people who are very liberal or progressive
E: are more biased towards changing them. They're like, hey? We don't need this anymore.
E: and they might err on the side of changing things too fast. Conservatives might err on the side of keeping things for too long. And I used to think that it's about your own personal level, based off of your personality and history and
E: everything else where you sit on that spectrum. I used to think that's what politics was. It's not that way.
E: Maybe I don't know if it ever was that way. That's how I understood it when I was a kid growing up in like the eighties and the nineties.
E: But to me, that's why to me, when I think of my what I'm comfortable with my preferences for gender and my expression of it, my identity of it.
E: How I go through the world that being a part of who I am.
E: That's why I don't really like to judge other people for how their preferences are
E: people who are these absolutists who say No, no, no! A man has to be this, and that's it. That's the only acceptable version of a man to me, besides being kind of oppressive. It's just kind of boring.
E: but I do think of it in terms of me not being a primary bread maker anymore. What if? And I've talked to my wife about this, hey? You know. Look at all this craziness, all the shifting
E: economic landscape around us, what tariffs are doing, to how production is created, what Covid did to it.
E: and I and I remember talking to her about like, well, what's her plan? B and C and D,
E: and it might it might be we moved to Europe.
E: and I can. There's a window for me to get citizenship there, maybe going back to her home country in Latin America and me just trying to find a job there, and she can find a job there. Now we're both breadwinners. I'm actually, I'm pretty okay with that.
E: But because being a breadwinner isn't so closely tied to my identity as a.
K: It's not.
E: I mean, I can be a man, and not be the person bringing the money in from externally. But there's a way I, as a man provide value and raise my son and raise my daughter and show up in my marriage that I don't think is is dependent of that economic reality.
E: But yeah, I mean.
E: before we do change subjects, I do want to ask for your opinion, though, like, what's how do you conceive of changing careers, especially this point in your life, with a family and everything.
E: What advice would you give me? Because you know more about my context and what I'm saying?
E: What details.
K: Right.
E: Advice. Would you say I'm interested in hearing your opinion about this actually.
K: Well, here's a.
E: And then and then we'll jump, and then we'll jump to the new topic.
K: Why, I and I will say that my grandfather he was born
K: in Italy. I won't say exactly where, but I well, actually, I will say exactly where he was born in Sicily, which is a.
E: Only.
K: The time.
E: Get out who you are from that one.
K: Right? Exactly.
K: Yeah.
E: He's 1 of those you have one of those very rare immigrant stories from Sicily.
K: That's right, only one. There's only one of us.
K: We all come
K: from him. The reason, I say, I will say, is Sicily, because there's an important part of this. There's an important component to the story, which is.
K: why did they leave Sicily? Yes, people were leaving Italy all the time back then. But there was a specific reason. My family left that I always heard from my dad, which was they
K: hated with a capital H,
K: the Mafia culture there, and the Mafia was running the show when they left. He!
K: He!
K: I was born in 1921 or 22, and at that time the Mafia controlled every aspect of life, and so, if you were a business owner in Sicily.
K: you had to pay a government tax, but you also had to pay a mafia tax, so they would come, and they would collect their fees from you, and it would, and they were not very friendly about it, and they wouldn't put it back into the, you know, like, yes, high taxes. We're going to put it back in education. And no, these were just people leeching like parasites off of
K: off of your work, and and.
E: What you're saying is founding anti Mafia.
K: It does sound a bit odd into, but I'm so sorry if I'm offending the mafia.
E: Very low.
K: That's why I'm anonymous on this. Podcast but basically, what was happening at the time was was that and and to your point about the Us. I mean, the Us. Has been a place where you can start a business, and you can pay taxes. And you're okay with that. But the rules are clear. You know what the limits are of those, and you can argue with those in court. There was no recourse back then, and so they left that that place because it was difficult. Now, one thing I want to say about that leaving, because I have the.
K: I've looked up a lot of the things recently, because I am actually looking about citizenship in Italy one day. And one of the things that I looked at was the what is it when the ship has the list of people. What's that called.
E: Manifest.
K: Manifest. Thank you. So I looked at the ship manifest, and I see
K: how many brothers and sisters my grandfather was coming with as a 2 year old.
E: Wow!
K: And he was coming with a lot. And there were multiple. There were multiple journeys from Sicily to I think it was New York
K: to get everybody on in just his immediate family over. So it was a big family. There were cousins. Everybody was coming over. They all end up in Chicago 1st to meet the other part of the family that had moved there a few years before. So the bunch of Italians there, and what's going on is
K: effectively.
K: They had no job there, which is why they were going to the Us. But that didn't stop them from having
K: 5, 6, 7 children. Isn't that I mean, think about the difference of mindset to say, Hey, sweetie.
K: you know what this is getting real bad. I know we've had 4 children. I know I still don't have a job.
E: Yeah. I'm terrified by that.
K: Having a new one right now.
E: Terrifying thought.
K: You know.
E: But to your point earlier about culture that was baked into the culture for a lot of.
K: Culture. There was no questions.
E: Right for a lot of reasons, stuff we understand and things we don't.
K: We don'.
E: Back my European background. I think in the last episode I said, Spanish cousins so pretty, straightforward.
K: Sure.
E: My Spanish family comes from a rural area of Spain, also probably pretty specific.
E: But they also had that culture which is like, yeah, man, my mom, even my mom used to tell me it's stuff about like, well, people just expected their like, some of their kids to die.
E: And it's not. It's not long, it's not even that long ago.
K: No.
E: And so and so like. And it's rural right, like each new
E: like person is a mouth to feed. But like it's also like another person that will help bring some.
K: Been here.
E: House like a productive.
K: Yeah.
E: Member of the family that is loyal to only you, which loyalty you need. Yeah, I mean also, Mafia, too. Right? I mean speaking of the mafia. But yeah, so.
K: Oh, yeah.
E: Things where, like.
E: yeah, people had these kids, they don't conceive of it like we do. Which is like, Oh, like a kid is a person I'm gonna have to support. I'm gonna have to like, get a college fund for and have to open a trump account for them.
K: So.
E: A 1,000 bucks free of charge. You know.
K: A lot of this we overthink, as now, as modern humans. In our 100, something years later, we are massive overthinkers. We are massively more anxie. I think we're probably more anxious.
E: We when you say we? I know who you're talking about. You don't mean everyone right? I mean, we. We come from a very specific, demographic, right? So like.
K: Be, yeah, yeah.
E: Because I have family. I have in-laws in Central America who do not do that.
K: Well, no, I mean, I'm I guess you're right. I'm talking to the context of like a Us based.
E: Yeah. Middle class, mid forties.
K: Right, exactly.
E: Maybe not, not.
K: I do think we do. I do think that because of social media and the Internet, and you can see these trends where this is a good, you know. We've seen the 1st scene from idiocracy right where you have.
K: You've seen that movie, of course.
E: Yeah, of course I have. I love that.
K: Why would I guess? Why would I assume? Not so, anyway? That 1st scene of the.
E: Okay.
K: The just deposition of these, the couple who is wealthy, smart, highly educated, compared to the ones that are not. That was basically my family was the the non-educated ones. They're having tons of kids. They have no plan.
E: No plan, yep.
K: And they're like, Hey, here's a plan. Let's go to the Us. I hear that's a great place. Everyone else is going, and they get on.
E: It is unplanned.
K: They get on a ship with a with a baby, and are there on for a month, and I remember one of the stories was, of course, that my grandfather almost died on that ship because of
K: some cold he caught, or whatever bacterial infection, or whatever it was a bit. It was a treacherous. I'm sure it was a treacherous time for for that. There's a gazillion people on there giving each other diseases, and they. And so he makes it and survives thankfully. And and yet I'm scared. I was terrified to have a baby number one at 30, at the age of 39 years old. So it kind of just shows
K: where we are, where we are in a place now, where we're so careful and so thoughtful, and there's so much information. Now don't do this, and don't do that, and don't. Don't go outside, and and don't be careful of this, and careful of that. And so we're very educated to be careful of everything. But the problem is, we're so careful
K: that what was before like, oh, I got a job flipping burgers, or I got a job at a as a cook, and I have 6 kids to support, which is probably this was basically his life at the time. The father's life
K: when he lost his job, which was fairly often and
K: a low paid job. To begin with, it was like, Oh, just another day I'll go find another one, and maybe I won't. And there's no welfare
K: when we even see the possibility as highly educated people, of losing the job. And it's coming down the horizon. We are more terrified than that Guy was than my great, my grandfather's father. So how can we learn? I guess the question would be, how can we learn to take that wisdom of just
K: letting go a little bit
K: and leaning in and surrendering? I would guess that would be kind of my word is, can we surrender to the unknown a little bit.
E: Yeah.
K: Like they kind of did back then because they didn't have yeah.
K: And can we not
K: be so careful that we just don't think it's all gonna work out. Because the truth is this and you're asking like, what do I think about your situation? Knowing you? The truth is.
K: I'm not at all worried about you personally, because I I know what you've done. I know what you've studied. I know your interests. I know you're like a Renaissance man in many ways. You have really dynamic interests in terms of careers already that you've worked in different different worlds and.
E: Media.
K: And you have Chlamydia.
E: Very Renaissance, Disease.
K: Exactly. That's right.
E: Lice, lice.
K: You have a lot of those going.
E: Powdered wigs.
K: But I mean, if you think about
K: if you think about you and what you have, and some of the moats that you've built
K: that you may not even be thinking about right now, but I can think of a few, most.
E: What does it mean? Moat.
K: Moting like a no, I mean, just like a moat around a castle, right? So you have a moat around some of.
E: Oh, I thought it was like a like an Sti reference, like.
K: No! No! No! Oh, shit.
E: No, no, I got it from my toilet seat.
E: That's right.
E: I swear, Babe.
K: That's right. But you have a lot of moats. I think people could not just easily replicate that you could take around the world apply to different organizations. Apply to different.
K: I mean, there's got to be tons of other
K: folks that are doing work for the con for the government or the military, that you probably would be fine. And there's all these interesting things that you
K: could do. I think the question is not, can you be okay. The question is, can you
K: can you shift this perspective from terror of the unknown to excitement of the unknown, and that that's not to say that that
K: it's not to say, Hey, it's so easy. Why don't you do it? I'm actually, I deal with the same exact thing as entrepreneur
K: I have found a few businesses that have some moats that I'm
K: that have kept me, you know, sustained, and one of them right now is is turning into a dry creek, so the modus.
E: Oh!
K: Is drying up.
K: And that's in the software world.
E: It's clearing up with some penicillin. Let me. So let me ask you so to continue. My.
E: you're very generous time. Give me in essence a therapy session.
E: So let me ask you, right, like, we can talk offline about specifics. But yeah, let me ask you, like, okay, so one of the thoughts that I have right. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this thought
E: is okay. So I feel like what I do. I do very well, and I feel like I've kind of quote unquote, earned my place in what I do. And I've earned this position. Yeah, there's some people could probably do what I do.
E: But like
E: I feel uniquely qualified to a certain extent unique is a binary thing, either is or isn't. That's the whole point of the word. You can't be very unique.
E: I do feel like I have a unique set of skills and background. Leslie Leslie Nielsen, Leslie Neeson, what's that? Irish Guy. You know what I'm going on a tangent.
K: From the taken style taken style, Median.
E: Well, he's Irish. He's getting into more comedy.
K: To like the 2 guns, or whatever naked gun are you talking about?
E: Well, he's in the Naked Gun series. Actually, he's that Irish actor from the movie taken, he is.
K: No, no, no, no!
K: The Nielsen guy from okay. Hold on
K: the white haired guy from the naked guy.
E: This is attention worth this is attention worth going on.
E: So Leslie Nielsen was an actor who has passed away.
K: Yes.
E: Leslie Nelson. He said he did a show called Police Squad, and then he did a movie based off of that called the Naked gun, and there were 3 of those
E: Priscilla.
K: Movies.
K: That's great.
E: Movies foundational to who I am as a person for better or for worse.
E: There is currently an Irish actor named Leslie Nielsen. No.
K: This is why I was confused. I was like, you are confusing people, but you must know what you're talking about.
E: What's the name of that Irish actor from the movie taken check for here?
E: It's not talking like.
K: He's, he decided. He's checked out.
E: Well, 1st of all, how dare you gender.
K: Yeah.
E: What is the name of the Irish actor from the movie taken?
E: That's liam neeson liam neeson.
E: DM, niece. No, yeah.
K: I thought it was like a young guy.
E: They're doing another naked gun movie, and he is the son of Leslie Nielsen.
K: Right.
E: Doesn't. Not just one critique. I haven't seen the movie, and I've only seen the trailers not helpful.
E: Leslie Nielsen liam neeson.
E: Yeah.
K: Not helpful at all. Is that why you think they gave him the job?
E: Anyway, whatever.
K: No, because he doesn't.
E: We'll dedicate.
K: It doesn't occur to me as that funny of a guy. I'm not.
E: You say that? But remember, did you see his cameo in Ted.
K: No, I've seen him in a few things where I thought he actually was.
E: Bought. He bought the he bought the box of was it was the series. The thing about tricks are for kids. He bought this. He bought a box of tricks and he goes up to the cash register, and he's like.
E: Can I buy this? I'm not good at an Irish accent.
E: and then Ted is the cashier. He goes. Yeah, I'm going to buy this box of cereal. He's like, okay.
E: Now, it's important for you to know that I am not a kid.
E: Yes, I see. I can see that. Okay.
E: But it says tricks are for kids. Yeah, I think that's more of like a you know, marketing slogan. Okay? So I can buy it. I can leave with this box that kind of I mean, I.
K: A dry. I think it's because he's so. He's known to be so serious that.
E: D.
K: When you see him in a different world. Yeah, yeah, that that would be.
E: If it works? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
K: Cut off.
E: Oh, so I'm very much looking forward to this. It'll be a very deadpan.
K: But that was also because you, these are fundamental to your personality. That's probably why you're also looking
K: yeah 100%.
K: Anyway, I like the pink panther growing up. But I did not like Steve Martin's repeat of that movie. It was a disaster.
E: Not see that. I'm glad I didn't see that.
K: Terrible, just.
E: Very much I used to. I also grew up on. Well, anyway, the point is that I do feel like I have unique skills that I think, earn me my pride of place. I'm very proud of where I am in the work I do. However, things like this kind of recent instability that I see over there kind of spooks me that it could happen over here.
E: And then I think to myself, Oh, my God, what if it's all a farce, right? And this is part of like a
E: I forget what that's called imposter syndrome.
E: Maybe I'm not qualified because I remember.
K: Right.
E: Every time I've switched I switched careers a couple of times and I switched jobs a bunch of times, and every time it feels like.
E: maybe I'm not special. Maybe I can't get a job, and the older you get the more it feels that way the kind of career paths
E: feel like they got cut off. And I think that I say feel like, because I don't want to give it credence, that it's true.
E: But yeah, I feel like.
E: Oh, man, if I lose this job it's kind of too late for me to just
E: find some being in the same narrative, and I've kind of worked myself into what I feel like is a niche space. But maybe it just feels that way. What do you think.
K: Well, I think we I think this is a very interesting question that we should all look at. So
K: what I've noticed with myself is that I oscillate between these 2 extremes quite often between I'm I'm unique.
K: I'm special. I'm good at the XYZ.
K: On one end of the the pendulum swings to one end and then the other other end. It's
K: I'm a farce, I'm a i'm a fraud. I'm nobody.
E: Right, right.
K: Who am I? And and you take, and the mind will take
K: whatever evidence of the day. It's like dish of the day, and provide you it'll take this little clues and then make, you know. One day I'll feel great about my business. And then within that same day I'll feel like
K: it's all falling apart.
K: This is how quick the oscillation goes.
K: And
K: I was just thinking the other day how we always are looking the the mind the ego. I'll say the ego, because I I think that
K: that's a big part of a lot of this is that the ego is is fairly, not real. We're not even. I'll put out post post, whatever postulate that we are. Not. Actually.
K: we're just kind of made up in some ways. We're kind of just like this temporary glob of consciousness. We can call it an ego. It's conditioned, it's all that stuff. And as that entity that's grown up, we think it's a real. We think that we are, we, we are. This is a real thing that I'm K, and
K: what I tend to notice is that I'm grasping on that ego is grasping on for an identity, and once it finds one it's holding on for dear life. So one
K: me was when I graduated back in the early 2 thousands in the yachts. I had a business degree, and I could see the writing on the wall that I got in like an internship. I remember before I graduated, and I thought, and it was at like Kohl's, basically. And it was just like a worst job ever. And I thought, this is, they were like, Okay, you know, you could have a great career here doing retail management. And I thought, This is a sucky job. I can see it.
E: Exactly.
K: Make no money, and I couldn't see, though
K: I could see myself getting pigeonholed in that world. And I was like, I gotta find something else to do. So I went back and did a postgraduate degree in technology. Now that postgraduate degree was good, it gave me a lot more opportunity, because there were too many people, basically like the early 2 thousands. There were too many graduates of college. Let's just say that it was sort of like Peak College of graduation. Everyone was going to college.
E: Is that true? Is that like a thing.
K: I think I've heard that. Yeah, it was like that was mass. There was a massive amount of now. I could be wrong. There may be. Maybe the peak actually came later, but I know that the the culture at the time
K: was that if you weren't going to college this was the time where everyone was like, you gotta go to college. Everyone who goes to college succeeds, and everyone who doesn't.
E: Right.
K: Flips, Burgers.
E: So this was perception. Yeah.
K: Yeah, everyone right? Everyone kind of did. Now, if I had actually been smart I might have said, Well, I can be a plumber. I'll go against the grain. I'll probably be a millionaire right now. But
K: he would be way off.
K: Yeah.
K: More job security, too.
K: Exactly so. But essentially how like that was what I was going through at the time. Now, I got a general technology degree like in it. But when I graduated
K: I realized that I wasn't as skilled as a programmer.
K: So there's a distinction between someone who can figure out software and someone who couldn't write software. And so I thought, oh.
K: I need to learn how to write software. And I had this existential crisis all the time where I'd be like.
K: I would help a client with a software issue or a software product. And then I'd be like, but I can't write it. So I'm not very good. I'm a fraud, really, unless I can learn how to write the software, I'm a fraud that was sort of the overarching thing. So instead of questioning whether that's true or not, I decided to just learn how to write software. I became a programmer. So I took about 3 years and I learned how to write programming become a programmer. And I taught
K: while you're working or after you graduate.
K: This is after I graduated, and while I was working, and so I thought the the promise was. Once I learn at a program, then I'll be safe
K: because I'll have this ultimate skill
K: that is so hard to crack. It's so hard to protect. It's a big moat around me.
K: and I'll finally be safe, and I can finally relax. What was I looking for? In all this? I was looking for
K: that feeling of peace.
K: But I believe that the way to get there was to give me yeah, I need a secure job. And all this way it's like this long, you know.
K: simple machine, to get to this one outcome of peace. Now, could I have just felt peaceful? Probably. Yes, I could have just taken the shortcut and just been like, Oh, how do I actually just feel peaceful? But I decided to go through this long route. Now, what's interesting to me about this whole story is that in the last 3 years, up until the last 3 years, I felt like this actually was true, that I had this protection and security by being a programmer. And then AI was was released into the wild in 2022, I guess.
K: and suddenly it was terror for me. It was like, Oh, my God.
K: this is going! This is coming from my moat. I just worked so hard. I spent the last 10 years perfecting and becoming a better and better programmer. I'm finally protected now.
K: And now this thing is coming into bulldoze, that whole dream. And it's like I got. I mean. So I'm back at the place where it's like I got nothing. I got nothing special about me now, and so it's either at this point in my life where I can either choose to embrace this uncertainty and this and this unknown, and just say, Hey, I actually don't know who I am, and I mean
K: I may just have to get comfortable with that. I don't know who I am, and I have no protection.
E: And I'm not.
K: Secure, or I can go chase another 10 or 15 years and try to find the next moat, and then have that knocked out. So I do think there's a choice here
K: that I have to make, and it's not to say that I've made that choice. But it's a it's daily I make trying to make that choice, and to say, You know, what can I just
K: kind of lean in to the unknown into the fear?
K: Or do I need to tell myself some full, false story that will make me feel better about myself. But it's actually not true, anyway.
E: Hmm, that's exactly where I am right now, I think, is that like, yeah, I feel like, I built up this unique set of
E: skills to kind of make. So. But it's funny, even as we're talking right now, I'm just realizing. So before I had a job I have now.
E: I worked at a manufacturing firm which is a whole different situation, making stuff that's really in touch.
E: And I may. I worked at a manufacturing firm in Southern California as 1st as a salesperson
E: supporting customers, but also selling stuff, but then also, like as a business development person.
E: And I remember the time that, like that particular company did not have an international salesperson.
K: I mean.
E: I'm like, well, hey? I speak
E: other languages. I'm comfortable traveling overseas, and it was a company just full of like. I don't think the average American doesn't speak any other languages. It's not a judgment. That's just.
E: I think that's just how. Why would you? If you don't need to? Right?
E: It's like, you know, it's like learning how to juggle unless like, unless it's like, unless there's a reason to do it.
K: It's okay.
E: Okay, fine. So I speak these other languages.
E: and then I'm comfortable traveling, which is his own skill set like, Hey, can you go to like. I don't know
E: Puebla, Mexico next week and talk to this distributor.
K: Yeah.
E: Get them to sell our stuff.
E: Well, that requires a specific set of skills and and knowledge.
K: They would not have sent me.
E: Could have, you'd figure it out well, anyway. So so to me
E: that to me I created that role I was in which is like a really good feeling. And then I created a different role which is in a management role in the sales area. And so when I did leave that company.
E: I knew they were kind of like. I knew they were going to have a hole for a while, because the job I was doing that I created really could have been a career.
E: and they would have to find
E: 2 or 3 people to do what I was doing. Not new people necessarily just have to hire a new person that has a specific
E: knowledge and travel skills of like languages, and then probably break up the other parts of my job and hand those out to other people who, you know, time and space is finite. So those people get this extra jobs. Well, they're going to be doing something. They're not going to be doing something else that they were doing before they got those extra jobs right?
E: And so like, when I left that job. I'm like, yeah, because I left, and it's like, Damn right.
E: But if I get fired and I've been laid off before, but like I told you the the last time I got laid off
E: I was a relatively new and working, so I just felt like this is exciting.
K: Right.
E: And I, you know, just talking about this. I do remember there was a time I had ended. I had ended most romantic relationships I've been in.
E: but there was one time where someone dumped me.
K: Yeah, yeah.
E: And it was the 1st time it had ever happened, and it was devastating. And it's not about that person at all, you know. I don't even think about that person anymore. But at the time it was devastating, and I've come to realize there was a lot going on there about me nothing to the other person. There's so many people out there you can be with.
E: So it'd be interesting to apply that
E: cause. I think that's how a monogamistic relationship ends up becoming this thing where you think, hey? I'm slotted in. Pretty good here. That's not a sexual pun. I know. That's how you took it, Kevin, that it wasn't.
K: Oh, sorry I missed it, too. It went over my head.
E: I'm sorry.
E: Catch it pretty. Hold on. I'm slotted in pretty good.
K: Didn't even think about the sexual side of it.
E: Neither did I, but I thought you did so. I was going to be discussing.
K: Yeah, it isn't. Yeah.
E: Good. Then we're on the same page, anyway.
E: I felt I was stuck in there pretty good, and
E: you can't replace me. You love me.
K: Yeah, yeah.
E: That's how I feel about my job, right like you can't like I look, this is a pretty.
K: Yeah.
E: And people just like in your relationship, you get secure. You get.
K: Yeah.
E: Then you become afraid of losing that relationship.
K: Yeah.
E: And then God forbid! It ends not on your terms, not because of something you decided that it is devastating. And that's kind of as I think about it right now, I mean you talking. That's how I feel about this.
K: Yes.
E: Losing this job I'm slotted in.
E: They can't replace me. Look at all these things. I can do well, there's probably someone else that can do it, and they might prefer that the other person do it. Which is kind of basically what happened in the relationship that ended.
E: And I made my peace with that. And actually you know what. It made me a better person, and
E: I found a partner that just across the board works way better on all the other little issues, but also on the feeling on everything. My wife right now, if I all the relationships that ended before I met my wife ended so I could meet my wife.
E: And so to me, it's kind of like, Wow, thank God! And that's how I feel about my current job. But if this job ends too well, okay.
E: then I'll then, yeah, you're right. I can go find another one. It's just it's just terrifying, because it doesn't always feel. Yeah.
E: like that score.
K: We like the feeling of security. It's it tells us that we are who we think we are, and that is. And so it's very disturbing to think otherwise.
E: But I think you're right. I think this all ties back to the ego. I'm with you 50% on this stuff. I know that you had like a background in Buddhism, in that you kind of followed it, and really kind of were very defined as a Buddhist for a long time, and now it's kind of opened up.
K: No, I never was defined as a Buddhist, actually. But I'm a Sicilian, remember.
E: Never do that.
K: Buddhist would ever admit that.
E: Question. That was a trick question.
K: I was involved. I was interested by but I but I'm too by discipline.
E: Coward.
K: It's so flaky. I'm such a flaky.
E: Hours.
K: I never made a very particularly good Buddhist. I was like I have to wake up what time meditate. How many times a day.
E: I can't eat. What! Isn't it true that.
K: Maybe I just like to tell people like you. I was a Buddhist back in the day because it felt it was giving me more of a, you know, like a puffing myself up. Maybe that's what I maybe I was bragging about.
E: Why is that? Why is that a flow.
K: I don't know.
E: In.
E: Yeah, good question.
E: And I imagine we walk in right away.
K: I should have told you I was a hunter, and I would have been a little.
E: Oh, yeah, I kill my own meat.
E: Yeah.
K: Rogan strain of like.
E: It's not hunting and lifting kettleballs that makes them independent. It's those millions of dollars that do.
K: That that helps that's what I'm that's what I'm.
E: It's hard to buy a compound bow in your.
K: Yeah.
E: Where is it from? I don't know. You know, what actually.
K: No, I can find it at the pawn shop.
E: I know very little about either one, so.
K: That compound bow in your hands is yours, because that's a good point.
E: Is that what people who shoot arrows call it? It's called shooting.
K: I don't know. Good! This is, these are great questions. If you're a listener and you know the answer to these questions, please send us an email we'd love to hear.
E: I got it. You know, I've been wanting to ask several questions, and I've been, I think.
E: pretty disciplined about not doing it. I'm gonna do this.
K: So that's that. Yeah.
E: What does an archer call it when they shoot an arrow? Do they call it shooting? What would an archer call that?
E: Archers don't say shooting. When they release an arrow, they usually say loose or release instead.
E: Yeah, come on, Carl. Come on.
E: Anyway. You get the compound bow in your hand. You can shoot. The guy released a guy.
K: No.
E: Does that sound better to you? Sorry, archers, you know, flame me in the comments.
E: but I refuse to say I'm going to go grab a compound, guy a bow, and then release a guy.
K: Pee wee Herman. I have to say the word pee wee Herman right now, so that I remember to go back and clean up the edit out the
K: the almost name that I called you, anyway.
E: Oh, I'm.
K: Throwing that in there. So I so I remember to actually find find the place all right.
K: Okay. So one thing I was gonna say, however, was that oh, is he?
K: Tell you a little story about my friend Steve, who I've mentioned on the spot? I'll probably continue to mention many times.
E: I have to say this, I do know. There was another topic you had, but actually, I'm running out of time.
K: Me, too, all right, so I'll say I'll say this story before we.
E: Stories. If anyone is listening, that is not me or you or my wife. Steve is this person, and I you know I don't know how much of the Steve character we can flesh out and still maintain your anonymity.
K: Like a lot.
E: I go pretty far away. He knows so many people that I think knowing him doesn't
E: help. Yeah. Identify you at all.
K: Love him. Yeah.
E: But I love these stories, and I've only read them very briefly, and I.
K: Didn't meet him once or twice.
E: I remember in envying him.
K: You told me about this.
E: Longer do. I'm pretty happy but for a while, though I did envy him so. I love these Steve stories.
K: Oh, good!
E: You.
K: Yeah, my friend, I have another friend that also knows him. And we we call. We created a verb called Steven. When something bizarre happens.
E: By the way, I'm pretty sure is how Christianity started.
E: Oh, yeah.
E: Well, I got a story about Jesus. It's like, Oh, I want to hear it.
E: Yes, Jesus, eating pretty hard that time that you were being nice to those kids.
K: My favorite Steve story, which I'll quickly say is that there was one time he told me. This is when I was living in la! And he said, I had a great night last night. Great, great date. Last night I was.
E: In the actual.
K: I met this woman at a at a bar, and she was she said. Do you want to go ride horses with me? She was like a rider. And so we're riding through the like in the North Valley like Northridge, or something I was like. Where in the hell were you maybe see me Valley. She's like she took me up to this stable and we got on horses. We were riding through the creeks, and there was water splashing. I'm like, Wow. So I said, How romantic! And then she's like, Yeah, she took me.
E: Back to it.
K: Yeah, he's like, she took me back to her place and she we had amazing sex. It was just incredible.
K: And I said, Wow.
E: Writing, and then bedded him.
K: Yes, embedded him, and I thought what a.
E: Like a beautiful.
K: Story I was like, so are you gonna see?
K: I mean, this sounds so hard. She was like, oh, no, she was absolutely just super ugly. Of course I would never see her again.
E: Okay.
K: And so I was like, she's like, oh, she was one of the ugliest women I've ever I've ever met. So my story went from
K: one like fairy tales.
E: Yeah.
K: Version where this beautiful you know.
E: Yeah. Vixen red headed vixen is.
K: Taking him to the magic.
E: Imagine Cate, Blanchett.
K: Right to.
E: Oh!
K: Yes, he was looking slightly managed, but in a very attractive straight 86, exactly.
K: He just happened to forget that part of the story as he was telling it, that she was not.
E: I also went through this little
E: a trip that you just probably went through, which is at 1st you're envying him. You're like, Oh.
K: Yeah, exactly.
E: Aren't any horse riding women. I no longer envy him for the woman stuff, because I.
K: No.
E: I'm deeply satisfied, and I'm not just saying that because I think my wife listens to this. That's true.
K: Sure.
E: Is, but I could see how a man would listen to him and be like.
K: Oh, I was a young man with
E: But then he does a thing at the end where you're like. But she's heinous. Bro, and you're like, Oh, okay, well.
E: okay.
K: Tell us, though.
E: Balances it out. It makes, you know it would make a I think, an average man be less jealous. However.
K: Right.
E: It would, still it still makes him seem cool, though at the same time.
K: Yeah, maybe. And maybe he was downplaying her beauty. Anyway. So the other story that I think, is more related, though, is yeah, probably not. I know he would not do that.
K: that if you could, but honest with him to report that last detail, I think.
E: I think he thinks he's sacrificing you. Look.
K: Yes.
E: For being able to. And I don't, you know, hey, we can have an argument about why.
E: as a man, a lot of men think that having sex with a good looking woman increases your at least your social value, if not other perceived values we could talk about why, that is, but you cannot argue that that is not. That is definitely a perception. That is definitely something that happens. If you talk to guys, that's the thing that kind of rears its head so the fact that he would give up scoring points in that area in order to score points in the but look how interesting I am! Area.
K: Yeah.
E: By saying that it makes him slightly more interesting.
K: Absolutely that he was even game for the whole thing.
E: Having sex with like this androgynous alien that has like a shapeless form, kind of like. Oh, but that makes you.
K: But it was exciting. Yeah.
K: Anyway. His. The story that's related to to what you were saying was when he lost his job. Yeah, that was a freebie I threw in there. He lost his job of 10 years. He was. He had the most miserable job. He was cold calling
K: for to sell corporate telecom service in an age where
K: no one, even like was using phones anymore. People are moving to the Internet at this time. So this was like an already archaic business, and he would get on the phone, you know, in his British accident and call
K: random companies and try. And just all day, and and the
K: the way he would describe this job was like
K: the misery I mean my God! Like every time I saw him he was like.
E: He does not mean.
K: His job, and I hate oh, his boss! He hated his boss so much. The boss was like of his he didn't like. And you know, Steve, if you're listening, you know
K: he didn't have a great relationship with his father and this, and he would often tell me that this man there was no one on earth that reminded him more of his father than this.
E: Got a lot of layers. Man.
K: It's a lot of.
K: But he stayed with this guy for 8 years or something. And basically kept this terrible job going. Now, one day.
E: Oh, 10 years! Man!
K: He wants more than anything in life. He wants this job to end, but he never has the courage to to end it himself. So one day he gets a call, and the guy says you're fired, Steve. We can't afford you anymore. And you're I don't know if he said personal things if he wasn't doing his performance whatever. But it wouldn't surprise me, and he was devastated like you said, absolutely devastated.
K: And he's so depressed he goes to Santa Monica and meets up with a friend, an old friend, I think, and she had just come back from like this seminar.
K: and she said, Well, let's let's look at your thoughts. What are you? What are you worried about
K: with this job losing your job because you told me how much you hate this job. And so they did this this thing. I'll call it, you know. Just mention it's called the work where it would you?
K: Oh, yeah, Katie, fire.
E: In what ways is this a great thing?
E: Exactly? In what ways is that not true? Yeah, I love.
K: She had just come from a Byron Katie workshop, and she said, Well, let me do this with you.
K: and it went from. I'm I'm
K: I'm terrible. I'm so depressed, or whatever I don't have this job to, I'm
K: I'm thrilled. I don't have this job, and I'm so grateful like he literally shifted his consciousness. It wasn't just telling himself this. He just really saw it like, Oh, my God! I've been freed. I'm so free now, and this is what I've actually wanted the whole time.
K: And so, instead of it, looking like I was fired.
K: What it looked like was the universe, or whatever gave me exactly what I asked for, and that shift of framing
K: broke the spell of the devastation of being, or the of the part of where you're like I've been rejected. It broke that spell of being rejected because it was actually this fate, this higher, you know, hand of fate coming in to help you out, and I've always thought about that, because that was the moment he decided to get up and move off to China, and he's been there ever since, and he's I've
K: oh, yeah, he's been there for 12 years, and he's never been happier.
E: Have an opinion about that. We'll talk about that later.
K: And he's never. I've not heard him complain about life the same way he was when he was in La. He is never
K: in China. If you're told.
E: And even kind of just a little bit good looking which he is. Hey, Steve? Yeah. Good looking guy.
K: Yeah.
E: But like, yeah, man like China is a good place to be that guy.
K: And he was not in Beijing or Shanghai. He was in a very in a much smaller city.
E: No competition, no competition. Right? Yeah, not not fair. It's like dropping a jaguar into the
E: jaguar is going to be eaten tortoise every single day until it dies fat and happy.
K: Exactly.
E: Married, anyway,
E: a couple of thoughts really quick. So 1st I would. I want you to remind me about this conversation if I get laid off.
E: Because this virus.
K: I'll send you the episode.
E: The Byron Katie, thing will be very important.
K: Oh, yeah.
E: I'm gonna need you to walk me through that.
K: We can do it as a live episode. If you want.
E: Oh, shit.
K: Good recording.
E: That's exciting. Now I have something to look forward to. So the other thing I want to mention is that you did not ask me about any stuff I said last week, if I had done all of this stuff.
E: And the 3rd thing I want to mention is why Pee wee Herman, why is that your phrase to
E: yeah
E: in time? Is it because it's memorable? Yes, because of all of the like onanism references they keep making about releasing, etc.
K: Maybe I thought I was gonna mention.
E: Do I remember?
K: Either your real name or my name.
K: And then I thought, I can't mention our names, even if even if I'm gonna delete it just to be safe, I should mention someone else's name. Whose name should I mention? What's a memorable name? Oh, and
K: like you were here, but I just saw a reel of him recently where he was talking about.
E: Oh, wow! Okay.
K: This is. Before he died. He was talking about being invited to a bunch of like high school parties, and they'd be like it's pee wee Herman. He's gonna come to our rave, and he'd show up at these like
K: raves that only had like 20 people. And he was. He was talking. It seems kind of like a cool guy. I was like, you know, I like.
E: Yeah, he was in a Cheech and Chung movie. I remember when I was a kid. Also he there's a documentary about him. I think he's doing a talk show circuit. That's probably why he's kind of popped up.
E: Also, if it's from something you recently saw, I'm really glad the last thing you didn't see was like, I don't know Schindler's list or something, anyway. Oh, I'm sorry we'll get rid of that later. Hitler Hitler Hitler.
E: although he was not in that.
K: He was not available.
E: Famously.
K: Famous. Yeah, I didn't.
E: Schindler, Oscar Schindler, Oscar Schindler.
E: I'm sorry you know what I
E: I am joking, and you know it's really easy to joke around. It's easy to joke around about stuff that you do not take personally
E: right? Like, if someone joked around about something that I just take very personally, it's very close to my identity, I would probably be offended, or at the best, case scenario. Just not think it's funny.
E: and I've heard plenty of jokes like that.
E: And you know, here I am joking about World War 2 and some very terrible things. So if someone is listening, and that's a very triggering, or that hurts you very much. I apologize. It's not meant.
K: In the comments. Put it put how much you're angry in the comments.
E: Don't! Don't do that.
K: And.
E: People. People make fun of stuff. And I've seen stuff where they make fun of like conditions people have, and I don't have the conditions. So I don't find that.
K: Trying to get some more views, though so feel free to give us a little.
E: Raise.
K: Tell us.
E: I am good worst.
E: Well, historical figures.
K: Right.
E: To include, and this is not an exhaustive list.
E: See you, Kevin.
K: There you go!
E: Popeye.
E: If you don't know all the very problematic things about Popeye, Google it. And then you'll see it's the worst.
K: Oh, okay. Good to know.
E: Oh, my gosh!
E: I'll let people! I don't. Wanna. I don't want to get banned from Youtube.
E: We're talking too much about Popeye.
K: Yeah, don't let's not get back.
E: All the kind of like racial and ethnic hatred things that are popped up. I mean just Google it for yourself.
K: Okay.
E: Google Popeye, racial hatred.
K: Wow!
E: Uncle, Tom, question, mark.
K: Wow! All right. You've kind of thrown a little grenade into the.
E: Yeah, man, it's terrible as a historical figure. He's he's based on a real person, anyway. Yeah.
K: Really.
K: Well, that's the I don't see why we would get banned for that. I think we would be.
E: Sounds, educational.
K: So very controversial. This will end up on a dark web the way we're going all this.
E: Anyway. The point is that you did not ask me to follow up
E: on my anxiety stuff and to answer your question last week.
K: Should have a.
E: Made me put more stuff in my calendar, and.
K: Oh, well, all right.
E: Calendar.
K: Dang!
E: My level of anxiety has not decreased because it should have increased, and it didn't.
K: Good, and you have a lot going on right now.
E: I'm a zip bound. I have lost 0 weight, but I could have. I could have gained more weight if I wasn't on it.
K: Nice.
E: Very similar thing. I talked to my wife constantly. I'm like, am I stressing out for a reason? She's like, Yes, you are. And then I'll say I bought a different thing. Am I stressing out for no reason? She's like, Oh, no, this is worth it. Okay, great. So I both brought my conscious.
K: Good.
E: And I've used my calendar more
E: also, just a lot of the things that were on my list of things to do. We ended up doing so.
K: That's awesome.
E: Anyway, I just.
K: So I need to have.
E: Any of our listeners.
K: Yeah.
E: We're thinking the same thing I was, which is like Kevin didn't follow up at all, probably because he didn't put in his calendar.
K: I didn't put in my calendar to follow up, and I should have. I was thinking we should have some sort of like
K: like repeat like we should have like a a.
E: Anyway.
K: Topics.
E: So we have for each week should write stuff down.
K: It might be. Maybe we'll.
E: Good idea. Write that down, Kevin.
K: I'll write that down to write that down for next time.
E: That's cool things.
E: You're not. You and I have a secret chat.
K: We do?
E: Podcast.
K: That's right, that's right.
K: And.
E: Because it's on an encrypted channel, and it's separate from any personal conversations we have.
K: Yeah, that we accept.
E: You know what I like. We need that
E: I don't know the specific reason why I just like it.
K: Yeah, I agree. I think it's a good. It's a good grounding base for topics that are related to the show. Go in there, and if you if you break that rule.
K: you know you're gonna get what's coming to you.
E: A vasectomy.
E: I recently had a vasectomy.
K: You told us about last time.
E: But also hurt.
E: I'm sorry I don't be offensive. My testicles still hurt.
K: Yeah, do they?
E: And it's the area around the testicles, just like I don't know if it's muscles, or whatever all the urologists out there can let us know. Wait, hold on! This may be the last.
K: Very sensitive area, as well as.
E: Famous.
K: No.
E: Before we leave, I'll just
E: what is it exactly that hurts so much down there from my vasectomy? It can be just the testicles, right. Is it like muscles? What's going on down there? What's up with the discomfort?
E: It's not uncommon to experience discomfort after a vasectomy, but it's not the testicles themselves that hurt. The pain usually comes from the spermatic cord, which is the tube that carries sperm. During the procedure the cord is cut and sealed, and that area can be quite sensitive for a while afterward. You might also have some muscle soreness or bruising in the area. If the pain is severe or doesn't improve. No, no, hold on! What's the muscle? Soreness and bruising come from
E: the soreness and bruising you're experiencing likely come from the surgical procedure itself during a vasectomy the doctor makes a small incision in the scrotum to access the vas deferens. This can cause some trauma to the surrounding tissues leading to bruising and inflammation. But why? That doesn't make any sense. If they only cut the scrotum, why would their muscles be involved? The scrotum is in the muscle.
E: not like the brain.
E: You're right. The scrotum isn't a muscle itself, but it does contain muscles. What I'm sorry this is.
E: I I apologize. That ended up being a rabbit hole that should be an entire episode.
K: But we should get a urologist
K: down here. And we can really ask these these kind of questions.
E: Yeah, Dr. Philadelphia, I'll call her.
E: you know it was a lady. It was a young lady as well.
K: Yes.
E: Late twenties, and you know what. I walked into her, her office, and I thought.
E: Oh, no, I 1st of all, I wasn't like tracking. It was a woman.
K: Yeah.
E: Because I don't care. I just made the appointment in a place I could do right away, and it just says, Doctor, whatever.
K: Okay.
E: So I wasn't thinking of an ethnicity. I wasn't thinking of a gender. I just wanted a doctor who could do vasectomy stuff. And then we went in for the consultation.
E: and then she just popped in. And I'm like, Oh, okay, well, she's young, and then she's a woman.
E: And I thought like, okay. And then I immediately thought, Oh, do I want this? And then the second thing I thought was like, Oh, no, no, that's like a bad thought. That's not very.
E: maybe unconscious bias that you're having, Carlos about having doubt. I now, in retrospect, think that it was about more about getting my scrotum cut open in my best efforts to be cauterized. I think that was more where the anxiety was coming from, but at the moment it felt like I was being.
E: you know, biased.
E: and then in my head. And this all happened in like 5 seconds. By the way, and the time it gives me to say, Hello, doctor!
E: And then I thought to myself, no, no, no, Carlos. 1st of all, it'd be embarrassing to just leave right now, although I know people who would, and they're powerful. They're powerful for being able to get not.
K: But you, yeah.
K: And so I thought, like, well, I can't walk out now, because.
E: No, and have to let this.
K: That would be rude.
E: Cut open my scrotum. It'd be rude.
K: Oh, but did she? Oh, so basically she did in the same appointment. I see.
E: No, no, no, no, no, no! But
E: met her, and then you did it that day.
E: do the consultation, and then go to another doctor.
K: Well, I thought I thought you meant.
E: Because that's really.
K: She. You met her for the 1st time, and then she was like, well, let me get my knife she, but you said you did it separately. Okay, good.
E: I did, but
E: so I had the consultation with her. I'm like, well, I can't do the consultation with her, and then not let her do the surgery that's rude. And then I thought, Oh, man, is this because am I like a bad feminist
E: that I've even.
K: You could be, yeah, yeah, you probably are.
E: Maybe.
K: Like.
E: And I'm so invested in me not being a misogynist or having oh, interesting
E: towards women. I literally thought, you know what
E: we're going to do this to burnish my credentials as a feminist, but like for whom? Though? Who's the audience for this? Yeah. Well.
K: Who are listening are probably applauding right now. You just don't hear them, but they.
E: So that applies.
E: I would rather be in a lot of ball pain.
K: Because you know the truth is,
E: And then think of as opposed to thinking of myself as a black feminist.
K: A lot of men don't think that women should be doctors.
K: but you kind of broke that you. You may have single-handedly broken that.
E: Are they a large potential.
K: Yeah.
E: For us. That's right, guys.
E: That's why I just said guys. But they could be women who don't think women should.
K: That could be true, very traditional. You're turning. You're changing lives just right now, just just telling us. But let me ask you this.
E: And this is a great personal risk. Last thing I'll say, is that so? That was a very good, liberal feminist, tolerant thing I did. I thought, like no man, we're going to do this because she's probably qualified. I say, probably because I did 0 research.
K: Yeah.
E: It's covered by, covered by my insurance.
K: Yes.
E: I did.
K: There you go!
E: Anyway, and it was more about her being young than about her being a woman. So anyway, I did it. I did it, anyway, out of a combination of laziness and self-hatred and judgment.
E: And I did it anyway. But then, later, after I was recovering, I remember thinking like oh, from a purely
E: like once again. I can't believe I keep having to like qualify this. I'm a perfectly happy married person, and I think my wife is an amazing sexy person and a bunch of other great stuff.
E: It was mildly erotic. The situation was erotic.
K: Of course.
E: And I don't mean that in a like a surgical play, because there's that, too. There's surgical play fetishism which I would not judge.
E: It's not my thing, but I wouldn't judge it.
E: But there is kind of like an erotic thing about this young. She's not good looking, but it's not different. It wouldn't have made it different.
K: Yeah.
E: Erotic, I thought, as I was recovering with a giant ice pack on my balls.
K: There was a doctor I saw on Youtube. That was a very attractive young urologist talking about vasectomies. And I remember thinking I can see why this video is very popular. Yes, yes. So, anyway. Now, did your pain change worse or better in the past time since last we heard about it?
E: Oh, way better. And now and once again, I don't want to share too much. There's 2 types of over sharing. There's 1 that helps people identify who I am, which I'm not interested in. And then the other one is like things that are just plainly, flatly disgusting to there. Anyone who's listening to this, or anyone who is listening.
K: The people who are finding this super disgusting have already chosen.
E: I'm sure you think yeah kind of put them over there.
K: That's fine!
E: You know no pun intended. By the way, yeah. So I will say this. We're now entering, not fully in, but entering the phase where the mild ball pain is
E: kind of a pleasure a little bit.
K: Oh, good, all right, fantastic, alright! That's good. So you got so I think the result is, then you you chose well, and you were
K: you made a good choice, and you have.
E: I did something good for my own family panning.
E: Yeah, is good for my wife, because she does not have to be.
K: Yes.
E: What's the word sterilized? She doesn't correct.
E: Because I you know, it's it's the I do literally think it's the least I could do after all the shit she went through.
K: Exactly.
E: So I feel like I did a little bit more of my work end of the work I feel, and like I scored a point for feminism.
K: You absolutely. You may. And you've changed a lot of minds. As I was saying, there's now people that think that women can be doctors.
E: Was not meant to be polemic, but it is because of the world I live in. I'm not afraid.
K: Exactly.
E: And.
K: Kind of a hero.
E: It's also a self benefit beyond the family planning aspects
E: and the pat of the back. I give myself
E: in. Now we are in A in. We're into the pleasurable ball paint area which anyone out there, anyone out there who knows what I'm talking about. They know what I'm talking about.
K: Anyone who heard that and said, like, what do you mean? Pleasurable?
K: Yeah, that's all. A category. Odd.
E: What I'm talking about, and you may never experience it. Shame on you, by the way, not, you know, exploring that part of the map.
K: That's exciting.
E: You know one of those. And once again I don't want to be disgusting. You know what I'm going to self-censor, because the next thing I was going to say was disgusting and very personal, but I think a lot of men. If I would have said it, a lot of men would have been
E: on the same page as me. All right.
K: Well, well, on that note
K: and on that note, if you would like to tell us about your experience with a vasectomy or any other topic that we've discussed. Please.
E: About things.
K: Put a comment.
E: And Stewie Herman.
K: Yeah.
E: This is coming in
E: as a man and losing your job. The terror of the shifting political landscape, whether you're pro or con. By the way. No judgment, you know. We want everyone
E: to be able, like there are nuggets in here for you and for our vegetarian friends.
K: Correct.
E: We want you to feel there's a lot of pods in here for you.
K: Yeah, like it. Subscribe. Leave a comment. Give us a review and send us a fan letter in the mail
K: to Po box 1 1 1, 1.
E: Nice.
K: Kentucky summit. Alright, anyway, we'll we'll talk next time. I will try to remember to ask you about the things that you are. Listen! We'll check in with your anxiety next time.
E: I appreciate that.
K: And if you need. If you know we'll do a we'll do a little the work session down the road. That'd be. That would be interesting hopefully, that will not be the case, though, and I don't expect that to be the case. By the way,
E: Also, I think.
K: If you're.
E: What if you.
K: Smart organization. You might say that it's kind of like there's it's not personal. But you, kinda
K: you kind of might have some biases, and you probably would want to hold on to to an E. If you're a smart organization, so.
E: I can agree with you more. And the last thing I'll say is just as a personal integrity thing. We have mentioned that this podcast is basically just a conversation. You and I would be having.
K: Yeah.
E: Which it is.
K: Correct.
E: And to bolster that point. And I feel like, I want to say this. This is a kind of a behind the scenes type of thing. After we
E: finish recording this podcast I'm just gonna hang up and stop talking to you.
K: Yeah, yeah, let's do it.
E: This is the conversation.
K: This is a conversation. We're not gonna go offline and all that nonsense. We're we're done here.
K: Nope, so until next time.
K: Alright, Kevin, thank you.
K: I'll see you. Thank you. Thank you for finishing my name. Alright. We'll talk to you next time.
E: Herman.
K: Name it.
K: Thank you, everyone. Thank you. All right. Bye.
E: I don't.