E, it is great to see your smiling face once again. Glad to have you join the pod. This is our third
recording. Yes, a screen into the void. Yeah. It does feel like it. I actually listened to our first
episode and I mean, I don't know if it's going to make me sound like a narcissist, but I found it
interesting. You stared into the mirror of your tantalized by the voice you heard on the pod. You
know what it did? It reminded me of the scene in Interstellar where a methamconnaise character
falls into the black hole and he was like super cool with it. I'm like, oh man, this is fine. Yeah, I
mean, you'd be cool if you were acting that out. I don't know if you'd be that cool. I didn't listen to
the whole hour because let's face it, who's got the kind of time? Well, I did. I must have that kind of
time. I did listen to it just for the sake of quality control. I took a walk around the neighborhood. It
was a nice evening and I thought, well, let me put this on. I was only going to listen to a few minutes,
but I kind of got engaged. I was like, well, because again, I've done about three or four podcasts in my
day. I will be honest, most of them have been about business with people I really didn't know very
well. I had one that was kind of more philosophical. That's called Cafe. No, I
shouldn't say what it is. I'm going to bleep that out because then they'll connect it to me. Called
Cafe Bullshit. Cafe Bullshit. And so I have done enough of them to know. What I'd say is in each time,
it wasn't because they weren't... Okay, there was one podcast that was going nowhere. I did it for
over a year. The guy who I was doing it with had no marketing skills. He had no interest in
marketing. So it literally got after a year and a half, I think we were at like three listeners,
three downloads a week, which was probably us. Hi, mom. Yeah. The other ones, I did one on AI recently
with another guy. And we actually were getting two or 300 downloads per episode at the end. Very nice.
And then he just flaked without really any kind of explanation why. Is there a chance that he was an AI
bot? There is a chance. Did you ever meet him in person? I did not meet him in person, but... Oh,
shit. That could be. He was very handsome. Or was it a pig butchering scam and they got tired of... He
was like, that'd be funny. He was... When he couldn't sell me his crypto, he gave up on me. Hey,
man, but seriously, this is another episode after you invested in this crypto app. That would be such
a dedicated... Later, later, later. This is a podcast. Okay, but last one, then I want to see you
and... That would be true. He should get my buddy if he does a whole podcast with me and publishes it.
Anyway, but anyway, that was fine. Actually, I was kind of like, this isn't really... I learned a lot
about AI from him because he was actually quite good at it. But what I would say is in each case, if I
had continued it consistently with the person, I think it was bound to grow. And in each time, for
whatever reason, the two of us would just kind of like... I'd say because I really didn't know these
people very well, there wasn't much to connect us. But what I was doing is I was listening to ours in
comparison. I was like, the chemistry here is quite good. If I do say so myself, compared to my
last podcast efforts, there's not like this kind of... Oh, there's sort of an awkwardness with the
other ones. Because I know you so well, that's obviously not an issue. And most of our
conversations... Yeah, most of our conversations... And I don't mean that like in
ships, not like... I am not myself a gay person, which is fine. I don't have the abs for that. But I
understand from my gay friends that docking... Well, you know what? Look it up if you're listening
to this. Yeah, I don't even know what that one is. But that's not what I meant. But it could also be
that. But it's like a platonic version. Platonic docking? Yeah. A platonic docking. Or platonic
spooning. Or like nautical, or the nautical version. Choose your metaphor. I'm not going to
tell you how to interpret my metaphor. They're a submarine. They both work. They both work. And
there's a huge amount of crossover between the sailor culture. And you know what? That's not even
get into it. I don't want... Well, you do have one... I noticed that you wear one earring. I don't
know if that affects any of that lifestyle choice. But one ear is pierced, I mean. I'm not. No, I don't
have any pierced. Oh, okay. I guess it was a... It looked like a... It was a headset, I'm sorry. I'm
using a very high quality camera. That's why you can't tell what's going on. That's what it is, yes.
There's a disruptive couch batter behind me. On purpose to help... I think we can safely say, even
though we're anonymous, that your residence in background is... You're really working that
well. I'm impressed with the second time in a row. And it's much quieter this time than last time. So,
well done. Yeah. Yeah, the din has been reduced. You should also turn this podcast into a Word of the
Day podcast. I like it. For the people who have given up on learning because of AI, we'll help
them. Why look at a Word of the Day calendar for five seconds when you could listen to this for an hour
and learn the word din? Yeah, exactly. That's right. Actually, this is an excellent segue, if I
may myself give myself a compliment. Take us. Into this AI chatbot. This is the free version of
Gemini. Oh, okay. This is not a commercial. This is just what I use because I'm too cheap to buy another
one. But I will soon, once my cash flow has improved. What does the word din mean? Din can have
a few different meanings. It's most commonly used to describe a wild animal's layer or resting
place. Like a bear's den. Okay, hold on, man. Hold on. Hold on. No, no. Hold on. You heard the word din.
What I meant is din, you know, like over the hushed din of the room, you could hear any potato chips.
What does that one mean? Din, that refers to a loud, unpleasant and prolonged noise. Think of the
clatter of construction or the roar of a crowd. Okay. I just want to say that, first of all, I think
this AI bot. Everyone is missing all its races because of XYZ. It obviously thought I had an
accent and I'm slightly insulted. Yeah, I could see that. English is my native tongue. Right. You
have a very strong accent. Right? Anyway, I don't want to get into it. I can sometimes barely
understand you. But thank you. Thank you. And if you didn't understand E's accent, it was din, not
din. Pretty much the same thing. I don't know if you guys... The way it pronounced it was Scottish. I
don't want to get into it. I didn't mean to take it to a racial place. Also, an accent doesn't come from
your race, obviously. That's true. From your ethnicity, potentially. No, it doesn't. I'm not
going to go down and rabbit-hole about that. But I was just watching a video of these white kids that
grew up in Southeast Asia. And it was fascinating to watch them speak. I think I saw the same thing.
It's amazing to see them. It's cool. I don't know. I just admire that. Anyway, it just shows how little
any of this matters. But the point is... And also, you get bonus points because at this point, you're
justifying white people, which is... That's true. It is less okay now than it used to be under
this administration. Yeah, that's not... I'm definitely not going to get political because I
find that shit boring. Right. I mean, not really. I mean, political, the way people do use it, I mean,
politics, right? How does power work? Politics is important. So everything is politics. If you talk
about economics, like we do, if you talk about culture, like we do, that is politics. But in an
ostensible, ideological... This party is good. This party is bad. I do find that kind of boring. And
there's a ton out there. So, but anyway, speaking of that, I do want to talk about something if you
don't mind. Yeah. So we have a couple of topics this week that we thought we'd get into. And I think one
thing that I'm always interested is the effect of these days, AI on the world and how it's affecting
livelihoods, industries, is affecting me as an entrepreneur. I'm both utilizing AI and yet
threatened by it myself because it could be very disruptive to my own livelihood. But you were
mentioning there's not just an AI disruption going on. There's also kind of like an overarching
political disruption, which I thought was a good point. And I think last week there was a lot of
issues, or not a lot of issues, but a lot of news about layoffs in the government. And so we thought
we'd talk about that. Yeah. I mean, I just work overall, right? I think one of the reasons we
started, I think, kind of recording these things, these conversations is because I am hungry for a
conversation about culture and the shifting political, cultural kind of like landscape.
Because I feel like most people, there's this middle, I don't know what it is, 60% of people who
aren't the top 20, aren't the bottom 20. Of just people who like, what does it mean to be a man
nowadays? You're an Iron Man. And when we say that, we don't mean this in this hypercharged way where
we're seeking acclaim as to what other people should be doing with their masculinity or lack of
it. You mean you don't hunt your meat with a bow there? Yeah. I just, you know, like I do, I think of
myself as a man and I think you do too. And so like without, you know, I don't seek to define what
anyone else is. I will say this though, as a little offshoot, my wife has told me about a book about how
to raise your kids in nature. And the father takes his kids out in Alaska into the wild and they don't
eat any meat in their whole household unless they hunted it and killed it themselves. And I guess
he's a psychologist, because he's writing books about this. But he also all their meat is. By the
way, as you say this, these kids are going to be grown perfectly normal. No problems there.
Please continue as they're. Yeah, exactly. And it's not just, it's not just, I think with a gun, I
think they do most of it with bows. And so I was, as my wife is telling me this, my way, we were on a, we were
on a camping trip and she's telling me this, how this, and she's doing it with a lot of admiration.
And I just thought, I'm not a real man. I will say. Oh, I see. Oh, here she is. Why don't you go take our
children into the wilderness? Isn't that interesting? Okay. That he does this. And I'm
like, that is interesting. I wonder, I wonder what his life is like. I wonder what he looks like. I'll
stop short of that. You probably just think that. Correct. And I do think that if I were to tell her,
sweetie, I'm going to start hunting all of our meat with, with a bow and arrow. I think she'd be kind of
like, yeah, part of her would be like, well, that's kind of impractical given, but a part of it would be
like, I'm very turned on. Let's, you know, this is, this is exciting. I get it. You know, to me, this is
like the difference between when people are no man, like that's why it's so kind of annoying to be a
public figure, which I have, I am in no danger of being. But when like public figure, well, a public
figure says something like, you know, I'm just trying to figure out how even what you just said,
right? Like my wife is talking about this person. And I'm like, okay, well, I guess it was a real man.
I'm going to be like all these, I mean, because there's so many opinions out there. Like what
tends to come to the forefront of the most extreme opinions, I think most men would be like, yeah, I
kind of know what you mean. Yeah. Well, you know, I am an advocate of the idea that there aren't just
two sides to everything. I think if you have five people, you have five unique positions on
something and to see the difference between all five, you'd have to get granular. But if you just
zoom up a couple, zoom out a couple levels, it's like, yeah, man, I know exactly what you're
talking about. Yeah. Yeah, I have also had this thing where my wife is like, oh, look at this reel of
like this shirtless top guy with this beard. I'm kind of like, okay, well, you just could have told
me about it. Yeah, you can just, you know, just share that with me. I mean, I can pull a good shot of
espresso. Is that, you know, is that kind of similar to the killing of a wild animal? Yeah,
exactly. I do other things to provide for my children. I, you know, I use the words. There you
go. Teaching words. Less sexy. Less sexy, but important. A particular type of person. You know,
we'll have a whole episode. I want to have a whole episode that I think we talked about before we
started. Your wife undermining your masculinity. That would be one. That's another
one. A whole season. But we'll talk about, I think we talked a little bit about this before we started
recording about my theory about the, the Vikings and overpowering young, softy boys that could
have become very brilliant scientists if they were allowed to thrive in cultures and
Christianity, I believe that was, that was my theory. And anyway, I don't think we get to record
that right now. Yeah, but that's another, that's a discussion for another day. Let's talk about
powerful Vikings holding down men with their powerful forearm, getting them to the ground for
their hot breath on their back. I'm sorry. This could be a whole AI generated, you know, video
here. I think you got, you got the, got the chops for it. So we're talking about work, work and losing
your work. And so here's my identity. I think there's an existential crisis aspect going on
there too. But I think there's a lot going on. Maybe things I don't even understand fully, right?
Study it or anything. But here's the context, right? Just, you know, I tend to think that my job is
stable because I think like, well, I'm making unique contributions. I write and analyze on a
variety of topics in international realm. And there's a variety of leadership that kind of keeps
me employed. And so, but because it's politics and economy overseas, it tends to be a, you know, a huge
government audience. That people either working in the government or people working. Yeah. And I'm
not, I'm not freelance, but I work for, you know, an organization that could make their living off of
this information, getting into the hands of the right people. And then people will gladly pay you
for that. So it's really great. And it gives me a sense of autonomy, but also stability is like a
balance. It's not as, it's not as unstable as working for like a major newspaper because very
niche. But, you know, recently, right? I mean, anyone who's worked in contracting, anyone who
works adjacent to government work, even people who are like physically co-located. If you are,
for example, someone working in the service industry next to a military base, if you are
someone who works within like a 200 mile radius of Washington, DC, even the stuff you don't think is
directly related to government, because it's not the government paying your salary. Through
either funding or through like the domino effects, a reduction in government activity will
result in the direct decrease in what you're making. Absolutely. And eventually cause the
organization to start laying people off as a reaction to the loss of government interest or
audience or work. And so, you know, I'm kind of adjacent to that. I, you know, I'm not in fear of
like a layoff anytime soon. But, you know, seeing in the news, USAID, right, they got shut down
overnight. And that was an agency that got stood up with congressional approval if I'm not mistaken.
And their money comes from Congress, right? And to see that get shut overnight is a new thing, right?
And as many new things tend to scare people, it kind of scared me a little bit. I'm like, wow, if that can
happen, what else could happen, right? Yeah. A lot of people who are in NGOs, I guess, and nonprofits,
probably would have lost their job. And I have friends overseas who work on contracts that were
like indirectly related to AID. For example, people looking for UN bodies, right? People
working for UN bodies. I didn't know this before this started happening, but they told me like
actually like 80% of the funding is from AID, even though it's like maybe the World Migration
Organization or whatever it is, or the Office for the High Commissioner for Human Rights.
Depending on the country, year in and the activity, well, a lot of that comes from
government funding, specifically the US funding. The US funds a lot of these things. I've
been overseas a lot, and I know a lot of people who work in contracting in the government. And I've
always personally always thought that a lot of these contracts were superfluous. So when I first
heard about DOGE and the idea of making the government more efficient, I'm kind of like, oh,
wow, that's actually not a, that's a cool idea. I think most people thought that too. Yeah, I think
most people agree. I think that's the kind of thing that I think is really important. And I think
that's where I might do just because we kind of like work adjacent to these things. Most people tend to
think of federal workers as being, I think kind of like lazy and like they're sticking the drops
forever. They think they're maybe like a, you know, like a bureaucrat sitting in an office and a
DMV or something, right? And that's often the people that we as civilians meet is like those kind
of organizations, or you can look at the Social Security Organization, which is... People
working in the Metro don't give a shit. Right. I've met plenty of them. I mean, not, but I've always
had, I've lately, especially lately, not like maybe 10 or 20 years ago, but lately I've actually
had really great experiences in the DMV in a couple of states. But anyway, my point is just, I'm saying
all this to say that I've recently gotten spooked by these headlines, you know, AID and then they
laid off, I think was like, you know, DOGE and that all these things and early requirements, which is
voluntary, so it doesn't kind of spook me, but then, you know, they got rid of AID in an entire
agency, right? They're gone now. They existed a few months ago. No, they don't. Yeah. Is that
Department of Education mostly all... That's another one. It's like 20,000 there, I think. CDC
industry, like, or what was it, health and human services? Yeah. All of these federal workers,
right, that have been laid off. And then with the State Department last week, which got a lot of
headlines, and I ended up going into the rabbit hole and seeing the videos of people actually
walking out and stuff, and it's been, you know, I watch the PBS NewsHour and a couple of other
outlets, and even Fox News has covered this pretty well. I like to watch a lot of different news. And
so, I mean, people have been covering this widely. Some with Glee, right, and others more warnfully,
and others kind of sit like, warning, like, hey, man, you know, you're getting rid of people and
these different things, and so, study diseases or people who are working on national security
issues that you're going to need these people. And even DHS, I think, had fired a bunch of the people
working their intelligence units. And so, to me, right, I do feel like, well, there's a right way to
make anything more efficient. But if you just stop lopping off parts of it, it's drastic, it's
sudden, and it breaks these previously existing barriers where before you couldn't do what
they're doing now. But now they just seem to have either, like, I think the public perception of not
exactly knowing what federal workers do makes people okay with it. The fact that this
administration is pretty bullish on executive power and that Congress is pretty willing to let
the president do whatever wants, that combination, right, whether you're voting for
it. Well, it's also showing that they don't really have any recourse that maybe people assumed that
they did have, right? Right. I mean, they technically do, but they don't really. Yeah,
also, like, when I see these law firms being sued and then capitulated, I guess my, you know, from my
ground level seat, I thought, like, what, but they're a law firm, they have lawyers and they're
rich. Right. They seem very powerful. They can't defend themselves in court. That's scary, right?
That's amazing. And it's not that I agree or disagree, right? You know, I'm eager to have
someone explain to me why these law firms are so terrible. But, sure, I mean, I, you know, I think
there's a lot of legal fraud and waste. Oh, absolutely. The fact that it can be done so quickly
and can be done with just a flick of the pen, like, the president having so much concentrated power
in a way that I just haven't really seen in my own lifetime. Well, we have never seen that. We've
always seen, we've always seen a restraint by the executive branch in our lifetimes. And we thought
that that was because the misconception is we thought that that was because he had limited power
and we were always told this nonsense about checks and balances and what a lovely thing. But the truth
is that it was all fairly a big sham. That's kind of what I've come to realize. Well,
institutionally, normatively, there's been this like, yeah, there's been like, oh, the
president won't do that because it's an independent agency. But like, there are
independent agencies that the president gets to select who goes on them. And then I went to rabbit
hole because I kept hearing the news say it's an independent agency like the Fed is or the Fed isn't
part of the executive branch, but the president gets to select the Fed chairperson. What is it, the
SEC independent agency? However, the president gets to pick. So to me, it's like, wait, are they an
executive branch or are they not? And if they are, why doesn't the president get to pick? And in the
past, so if you really look into it like a normal person, if you look into it, it's like, oh, it seems
like the only barrier has been that, you know, a broad base of political actors and Congress and in
other places would push back too hard. Normatively. Right. Like, why can't you, you
know, be on the be at a restaurant and stand up and yell and then start picking your notes? Well, a big
part of that is normatively, I mean, they might try to kick you out, but you know, most people don't
know, people behave in the public sphere because of norms and they're afraid of being looked at a
scant. Absolutely. I'll say that for the next one. And maybe that's why the presidents have been
careful before is that they thought this would be the downfall of their career if they did push too
hard. And I've been in a lot of Latin American countries where they have a democracy on paper,
they have a constitution on paper and a cabal of corrupt actors runs things and has completely
taken over Congress, the courts and the executive. And it's only democracy on paper. They
rubber stamp things that are created just for the sake of enhancing their power and money. Yes. And I
never thought our country was like that. There's aspects of it. I'm not naive, right? However, I
just, it was, I didn't realize until recently, maybe the last five or 10 years, it's the norms that
hold all this together. We have plenty of laws, but it's the norms that kind of create this cohesive
democracy that we have. And most people are tired of it. Most people are tired of not perceiving that
they are gaining out of the democracy. They've voted for a person who is an outsider who they think
sounds like they do. And hence has the sincerity and the will to do things that are good for them
because insiders don't make these changes because it's not an interest because they're
corrupt. You hired an outsider, but you know, if it's the case that the outsider is just as corrupt
as not more corrupt and breaks norms and takes over in ways that centralizes power in ways we have not
seen recently, then it's not going to help these people out at all. And now these people have
selected someone who they thought had their interests in mind, but it turns out that just like
all the previous politicians does not. They're actually befolded to a political group and not the
people who voted for them, which would be kind of the same thing as always. So it's interesting to
me, all this is to say that the shifting political landscape of the centralization of power in the
executive, the acquiescence of the Congress and the courts, the Supreme Court and the Congress to
allow the centralization of power that has resulted in mass layoffs of something right
adjacent to what I do has spooked me into thinking like, wow, like I don't want to talk about the
centralization of the executive power and all this other stuff. I think that's an interesting
topic we can talk about another time. But then like, this is the context of men. It's kind of
spooking a little bit because I know people it's effective. And I thought like, oh, maybe it's my
job secure because it's not something I think about every day. And I've had a lot of jobs, you
know, like I worked as an engineer, I've worked in sales, I've worked in business development. Now I
do a lot of writing and analyzing and produce kind of products that kind of like, justifying my
existence and keep money in my pocket. And as long as there's a readership, I'm employed. But it's to
me, I never felt this vulnerable, I guess, because the political landscape is shifting so quickly.
And even private actors like law firms and even, you know, libraries, local governments are
changing the way they get out contracts and hire people. And it's all like, it's all changing very
quickly. And that has spooked me. And then I thought like, wait a second, why am I so spooked
now? I've changed careers. I mean, I've even gotten laid off before. I think one of the first
jobs I had as an engineer, I got laid off because completely out of my control, we had a vendor, the
Clare bankruptcy, and then they had a layoff in the company to stay afloat, right? Wow. And I didn't
take it personally and I wasn't even scared. I was kind of excited. I was kind of like, oh man, I get to
look for another job now. And I've even left jobs to pursue completely different changes of what I do
for a living. Yeah. And that was exciting and scary. But now I'm just scared. I don't know if it's
because I have like a wife and a couple of kids. I don't know why, but like, that's probably it. I
mean, I was thinking we were talking, we were talking last time about, I think I was telling the
story about how the moment I had a child is when our business took a 50% hidden revenue. That's right.
And I was walking around looking up in the sky for answers. And I don't think I would have felt half or
even a quarter of that terror had I not just, have we not just gotten pregnant? And you just had a baby
recently. I won't say too much about that, but I just know you are a father again. And that's an
interesting time in your life because you feel, and I have children, you feel this huge,
responsibility and weight on your shoulders. And I think as a man too, that's just not just a natural
aspect of it. I'm not saying women have their absolutely have their own weight on their
shoulders. So we both, but I think any kind of time you're a parent, it's just this, it's this, at
least if it's a perception of like, you know, I mean, we were kind of talking about a bit of
feminism, sexism, all that stuff last time. And I think one thing that occurred to me was when you're
having a baby the natural way, I know there's lots of new modern ways to do this, but the old fashioned
way where, you know, you're a couple and a woman gets pregnant and a man is not pregnant. Then how
dare you. That's I know I'm sorry for the hasty, but when in your in that situation, it's a rare thing
these days, but when you're in the other one, I don't want to keep interrupting you, but I just
really love the sentence. Sorry for the. Sorry for the. Yeah, thank you. That might be there. I'm
shopping for, I'm shopping for titles for my autobiography. Maybe that'll be, yeah, maybe
that'll get grab some attention on the YouTube. What's that? What's that recurring joke on
Brooklyn 99 or used to be the joke was like, name it your sex tape. Sorry for the. But for anti-semitic
stuff, I really can't come. I can't really come on that. That's the funny. But yeah, I mean, if you're
in that situation, which, which many are then just practically on a very nuts and bolts level, you
would expect that a mother who has just had a child needs to give her full attention or good amount of
her attention to that child's physical and mental health and all that stuff for a long time. Yeah. And
it's easier to have one person going out and bringing in some money at that time or doing the
work that needs to be done to bring put food on the table. So she has the best opportunity to do that.
So just from a completely practical point of view, it makes sense that there's a lot more pressure on a
new parent, especially a new father to bring home the bacon, as I say. That's it. Yeah. Sorry. Fendi,
Fendi, any vegetarians out there? I apologize. Very nice. Very nice. Well, here's the thing that.
You know, my point of view is this, like I come from a place of high tolerance, like my conception of if I
have any values at all, do I have any values is that, you know, I, I believe that we were in a social
contract, that's constantly being renegotiated. It sadly does not include 100% of
everyone living under one political jurisdiction. You know, if you can get 80% of the
people to sign up for the social contract, if even begrudgingly, I think you're probably creating a
pretty good society. 100% would be nice. That would be a nice target. But I really do believe that
like, you know, we have to live together and society exists to enhance our lives and to create
common cause and to spread out the risk and to increase the benefit. And I believe in that that
should be done, you know, with consent and with free will, self determination. That's why I love
the United States. That's why I'm from this country. I was born in America. And I love, I love
our entire political experiment and the values behind that organizing principle as flawed as it
is. Right. I don't know if it was, was it King Jr. That's embarrassing. Who referred to it as a
promissory note. Right. The Constitution is a promissory note that has yet to be fully cashed in.
It sounds more like Martin Luther King's ring of the moon. But that's the concept, right? I mean,
what a beautiful idea. It's not perfect. It doesn't get executed. I mean, our history is a
shows that. But like, I'm sorry, man. I've, I've lived in a lot of other countries. I'm parents from
both immigrants. I'm familiar with the countries they're from, one's from Central America, one's
from Europe. Like, you should see what it's like when you don't have those values. It's pretty
grim. That's because that's how humans are, man. Like, you know, our ape cousins, because we're
apes, our ape cousins are, you know, you have the ones that are like murdering each other when they
run into a new tribe, right? Those are chimpanzees. And the other ones were just
constantly fighting for dominance. Like, I don't know, we did pretty good as an animal species with
some stability and some benefit. We're all over the place. So, like, to me, the American
experiment is fascinating. That's what we have in common are values, right? I've been to countries
where, like, you know, you may not look like you're from there because they all have, like, you know,
98% of people are the same ethnicity, for example, right? Like China, right? 98% are Han ethnicity.
So to me, it's like, wow, what a great model that we all bound together by these values and that you can
live in a state that more carefully reflects your values, even with around a couple states or by. And
I like the states I've been in. Each one of them has my pluses and bonuses. But all this is to say that I
come from a place of tolerance. I come from a place of democracy where we kind of like, there's a scrum
of what our government is going to do and be about. And I like the fact that in the United States, you
know, that happens often at the local level, at the federal level. Right. And it means having to
tolerate it when the outcome isn't what you wanted. And it also means having to tolerate other
people's views. And I also think that way culturally, I have cultural values. So like for
me, my preference is, you know, I prefer that my wife has a conception of our gender roles, what she
perceives my gender role to be. I'm like 80% like, yeah, sounds great. I'm signing up for that,
right? And she has signed up for her gender role, which I think is fine by me. And we found each other.
That's how it's supposed to work. You know, I do think like, oh, let's be these androgynous couple
that like makes everything gender neutral. And we've eliminated gender bias words from our
vocabulary. I think that's great. I think you should have that. And there's definitely tons of
places you could live and do that and be and really make that your whole personality if you like. I
think it's great. And I think that's great that you can do that. You can't do that in every country. So
I'm glad that people think that way. So, but you and I, I think when we're talking about like, you know,
I'm feeling anxiety about work because I'm a sole breadwinner. It's not a complaint. And we're not
making a normative determination for other people. Right. That's how that's the life we live.
That's how we feel. That's our preference. We like that. Right. We wouldn't have chosen it if it
wasn't for that. So when we're talking about like, oh, I as a man feel anxiety about providing for my
family, it's not because we think other men should feel that way. It's because that's how we feel. And
to us, it's kind of partially tied to being men, but it's partially tied to other. It's tied to a whole
bunch of stuff. And I agree with you that, you know, my gender role that I perceived and my wife
perceives, you know, it really is born out of like a practical like, well, look, there's all this work
to do in our household. We need money to do stuff. Right. That's a reality. And, but we also need
someone to do the kids stuff, do the house stuff. And so we have sat down and very intentionally
split it up based on what do you like doing? Yeah. We sit down and split the house chores. It's like,
okay, well, actually like washing baby bottles for my little baby girl. My wife prefers to take the
first shift when the baby girl's going to bed because it requires a lot of attention. She likes
staying up late anyway. So she'll do that. I'll go to bed. Nice. I wake up and I take over around four or
five in the morning. That's my preference. I would rather knock out four or five hours of sleep and
then take over. And I love, I love washing baby bottles and she likes changing diapers more than I
do. So this is a really great practical split of the work. And that includes to your point. Well, I'm
okay being the person that externally goes out and yeah, the money. And I find it fulfilling. I found a
way to do that for the time being. Knock on wood. I was very fulfilling for me and engaging. And then
she finds way to engage too. She's sick of just influencer stuff on social media. Make some money
that way. But in the last couple of years has turned mostly internally to make sure our family and our
home is a great place. So I think a lot of this stuff is driven. Go ahead. Sorry. Let me finish your
last. I thought is like she has a lot of anxiety about her role in all of that. I talked to her about
it. So and I talked to her about my anxiety with my part of it. Right. Yeah. Each, each, each division
of labor comes with its own anxieties. And so mine is, oh shit, I could lose my job. I might lose my job
tomorrow. What is that? Yes. You know, that's scary to me. What am I going to do? How do I
transition an entire career? I mean, I've transitioned an entire career before, but how do
you do that again? Well, okay. So there's a couple of things that came to me as you were talking to me
and they're kind of related and kind of not. But the first thing that occurred to me as you were talking
about roles and stuff is we kind of take for granted the fact that these gender roles were arbitrary
because we look at them now in our society and think, well, why should a man be the one going out?
Why couldn't it just be as easily a woman? And we assume that the reason it wasn't that way was
because people in the past were sexist. Just, that's it. They were just sexist bastards. But
actually if you look at reality, it's not always so simple. Basically we are able to have that
luxurious, we're able to have the luxury of that opinion because of technology. Technology is
what changes societies. And if you go back 500 years, what you're going back to is a place in which
most people weren't living beyond the age of about 35. So if you're going to have kids, you got to have
them early because you're not going to make it. You wait till you're 35 like I did. Actually I was 39
when I had my first kids. In 500 years ago, if I had waited until 39, I could have been killed by a
bacterial infection that I got at 25. That would be the end of K. And there would be no more K,
many K's to go on. That's one aspect. The other aspect would be there's really no such thing as a
condom back there back then. So you are likely going to get pregnant. And when you are pregnant as
a young woman in her teenage years, you are going to, you're going to be in a situation in which it
would probably be easier for a man to go out and either farm or make money and bring home food
because guess what? You're probably going to get pregnant again and you're going to have like five
or six of those. And then it becomes harder and harder for the woman to arbitrarily decide, okay,
I have six children. Hey, you know what, husband? I'll go make the money. You stay home. That was a
harder decision to make along with the fact that we didn't even really have any technology around,
like periods, let's just say, menstrual cycles. So when the woman had a menstrual cycle, it was not
just stick a pad up there, stick any kind of other tampon, whatever. You really, I also don't know
how it works, K. Yeah, I'm just like, I'm thinking about my biology. No, I'm there. There
really wasn't any technology related, any modern technology that we take for granted related to
tampons related to pads related to any kind of menstrual cycle gear that you could just show up
made out of bark. It may have been or you may have just been like at home. I hate to say just kind of
you. You know, we don't know. I'm guessing most people don't know. Correct. You're going to say
it. I will say it. You probably were just at home bleeding and there may have been only so much you
want to do. It may have not have been the day that you wanted to go out to the to the blacksmith workshop
and start hammering on, on, you know, to make some tools. So there are practical reasons why. Why
that occurred that this this. Basically this distinction between a male and a female. Why was
that happening? Why was one more easily geared towards going out and doing hard labor and the
other one was not. Now, I'm not saying that's necessarily the right thing, but that is just the
way evolution happened. Maybe if you go back to prehistoric days before civilization, you could
you could argue that there could have been a better dynamic in which, you know, sometimes the males
hunting, sometimes the females hunting, maybe there was a little more flexibility there. But in
terms of like the last couple of thousand years or many thousands of years, that's how it became.
Now, we developed a lot of this technology. We got we developed birth control. We developed lots of
amazing things in the past couple of hundred years. And I think it's sadly, I think we forgot how
impactful that technology has been. And so we've now are sitting here with all this technology
saying, why were those old people so sexist? It doesn't make any sense. They just arbitrarily
decided to make men work and women not. That's not fair. But we have to also look at the society in the
past with with a perspective that's realistic for their time, not just for our time. And I think
that's what most good historians would say. So first of all, I don't and I think you know this, I
don't believe in evolution or history. But if I don't check, you believe more in the very dumb
thing. Creation people who don't. I don't want to sell people who do not believe in evolution, but
that's it's a dumb thing. I mean, you know, debate me. I think it's fine. By the way, I really believe
in evolution. I'd be really terrible at defending it intellectually. So, you know, I look forward to
someone I look forward to it like a really smart, charismatic creation. And making you look
stupid. And maybe I made use the wrong word because evolution. I meant more of just like what
naturally we're just we're just a trend that naturally happened. We're just laypeople. We're
not. We're not. I mean, you didn't say birth person, which I found very offensive, but. I'm
joking. The mother is that which is sorry back then that would have been a very. Just call me what's
that woman's name, the Harry Potter. If you if you had grown up and like, you know. If you had grown up
in austere, like first people times coming out of like Africa and you're like the first, I don't
know, Homo sapiens to see like the Andes or. I'm saying that the Dolomites or whatever. And you're
like, oh, wow, so is Europe. You know, you're you're we are closer to nature in that technology
allows us to have a distance from nature, although I think I have this really stupid abstract
argument that everything is nature, but whatever, let's get past that. Because I mean, we
manipulated the atoms to make plastic stuff using chemical processes and all the things in plastics
come from nature. So how can you argue something is not natural, but okay, whatever. Let's get past
that for a second. Let's talk like normal people because that's not how I normally talk. If you're
closer to nature, survival is key on your list of things to do. You are less likely to be like, you
know what, I think I identify as like a different gender. Also, what gender also is it socially
constructed? Also critical thinking also, you know, human and the other philosophers about like
the whole, the whole, you know, foundation of knowledge. That doesn't happen. You know, it's
basically it's very animalistic. And I don't mean that as a I mean, that as a knock, I mean, that as a
like as a right survival minded. Yeah, very lack of self consciousness. Like what has to happen here?
Right. And I can easily imagine that like, yeah, when you're close to survival, you be you're very
practical about everything. Yes. And you're probably you're less introspective about
everything. Absolutely. Right. And I enter it's a luxury of a society that has figured out how to
survive with massive amounts of abundance that you get. If you look at all the historical
philosophers, they often came from those civilizations that had just kind of like, why we
cracked the code on on being able to be super efficient with survival. We're not living like
you say, day to day, we have an abundance. And that gives you the luxury to criticize the people who
have often figured out how to make that efficiency possible and say, this is bullshit. There it is.
Which is so ironic. This is interesting, right? It is interesting because I my model of the world
works similarly to what you described, which is like a lot of what societies create, because
societies are constantly forming and reforming and then ending and then starting. And the culture
that a society has to a certain extent ends up, you know, it's like the keyboard on your computer is
path dependent. It's not like someone sits down and says, hey, what's the like ideal society here?
Let's design it. No, it's it. There was something before you showed up and you're working with that.
I don't want to tell you this and although there are any nerds listening besides you and I, when we re
listen to this, you and I know that the keyboard is not ideally laid out for how friends work with
their fingers. It's laid out that way because of typewriters because they couldn't have commonly
used letters together. And a little arms would hit each other. I use the typewriter when I was a kid.
And I know that from actual using it. So if you had to redesign a keyboard, you would do it differently.
You would lay out. And I think there are people who try it. I've seen these stupid keyboards. I'm not
impressed. I would rather destroy my wrist than give them any sort of, uh, I'm sorry, I just had like
a gay moment and they mean that not as an insult. I mean, I don't, I never use that word. Bejoratively
there was this very, I'm straight. I don't know what the number is. 86. I'm straight. I'm at least
an 86. So there's a 14% chance for me. I'm 100% scale. Okay. Um, I don't want to say what the scale
is cause I'm like, I don't want to expose too much about me. There's a very good looking man with an
excellence physique and beautiful hair. It's just why that's right. You're at the residence in
and it's raining outside. And he just kind of like pushed his hair back over and kind of like, uh, and
I'm like, am I, am I a little gay? What, what is this scale? I don't know. I just had that thought and I
want to say it's troubling cause it doesn't trouble me, but it's kind of like, you know, it's
kind of when you get nudged a little bit and you're like, no, stop. So don't let them, don't let them
get through your fingers. So I'm trying to make me doubt things about who I am. Go talk to him because
this may be the last chance you, yeah. It's a nice dip. I'm saying it's a dip a little bit. Like I would
like a nine. I became like a 76 gay. I became like a 76 straight. I went from 86 plus to like a 74 minus.
Yeah. But it popped back up. He's gone. Everything's fine. K, I'm back to 86, maybe
87. Oh good. All right. So now as I try to, as I try to assure myself, I know who I am. That's right. Well,
so here's the deal. Uh, I have not forgotten what I was talking about. Yeah. You were talking about
Sidi. You're talking about, um, they scared it out of me too. I wasn't looking by the way. It was a very
quick glance. I don't know what that says about me and the numbers. I've posited up until now, but
let's, let's since we did forget, let's move to the second thing. I didn't, I didn't forget. We just
closed off that pot and we can move on to a much better topic about other than me fearing about my
job is, is this, is that I think you're right. I think the values of culture has tends to come from
its necessities, but as it shifts and moves, it shifts and moves in ways that are impractical,
just like the keyboard, our keyboard is impractical. It has gotten to an impractical
place, but it's actually pretty practical in the sense that it's being mass produced and it's just
easier to do that. So to me, you know, we have all these leftover cultural norms that came from a
very practical place in the past, like you mentioned. And so the, the act of questioning
those norms and then changing them, hey guys, we were past the moment of meeting this. I think
that's what design, that's what I always thought the political spectrum was supposed to be about.
Conservatives are less interested in changing things because they think there's a wisdom and a
practicality to these existing norms. And people who are very liberal or progressive are more
biased towards changing them. They're like, Hey, we don't need this anymore. And they might err on
the side of changing things too fast. Conservatives might err on the side of keeping
things for too long. And I used to think that it's about your own personal level based off of your
personality and history and everything else, where you sit on that spectrum. I used to think
that's what politics was. It's not that way. Maybe, I don't know if it ever was that way. That's
how I understood it when I was a kid growing up in the 80s and the 90s. But to me, that's why to me, when I
think of my, what I'm comfortable with my preferences for gender and my expression of it, my
identity of it, how I go through the world, that being a part of who I am. That's why I don't really
like to judge other people for how their preferences are. And people who are these
absolutists who say, no, no, no, no, no, a man has to be this and that's it. That's the only acceptable
version of a man. To me, besides being kind of oppressive, this is kind of boring. But I do think
of it in terms of me not being a primary breadmaker anymore. What if, and I've talked to my wife about
this, hey, you know, look at all this craziness, all this shifting economic landscape around us,
what tariffs are doing to how production has created what COVID did to it. And I, and I remember
talking to her about like, well, let's her plan B and C and D and it might be removed to Europe. And I
can, there's a window for me to get citizenship there, maybe going back to her home country in
Latin America and meet you trying to find a job there and she can find a job there. Now we're both
breadwinners. I'm actually, I'm pretty okay with that. But because being a breadwinner isn't so
closely tied to my identity as a man. It's not, I mean, I can be a man and not be the person being the
money in from externally. Yeah. There's a way I as a man provide value and raise my son and raise my
daughter and show up in my marriage that I don't think is dependent on that economic reality. But
yeah, I mean, before we do change subjects, I didn't want to ask for your opinion though. Like
what's, how do you conceive of changing careers, especially the point in your life with the family
and everything? What advice would you give me? Cause you know more about my context and what I'm
saying. What the textualize advice would you say? I'm interested in hearing your opinion about
this. Well, here's what I think it is. And then we'll jump to the topic. My, I, I will say that my
grandfather, he was born in Italy. I won't say exactly where, but I, well, actually I will say
exactly where he was born in Sicily, which is a, which at the time, I figured out where you are. From
that one clue. Yeah, exactly. That's right. That's right. Only one. There's only one of us. We
all come from him. The reason I say, I will say it's Sicily because there's important part of this.
There's an important component to the story, which is why did they leave Sicily? Yes, people
were leaving Italy all the time back then, but there was a specific reason my family left that I
would always heard from my dad, which was they, they were leaving Italy all the time. Hated with a
capital H, the mafia culture there. And the mafia was running the show when they left. He, he was born
in 1921 or 22. And at that time, um, the mafia controlled every aspect of life. And so if you were
a business owner in, in Sicily, You had to pay a government tax, but you also had to pay a mafia tax.
They would come and they would collect their their fees from you. And it would and they were not very
friendly about it. It wasn't and they wouldn't put it back into the, you know, like, yes, high taxes,
we're going to put it back in education and what no, these were just people leaching like parasites
off of off of your work. And and that is a sounding anti mafia. It does sound a bit odd to buy. I'm so
sorry if I'm offending the mafia. That's why I'm anonymous of this podcast. But basically what was
happening at the time was, was that and to your point about the U.S. I mean, U.S. has been a place
where you can start a business and you can pay taxes and you're okay with that. But the rules are clear.
You know what the limits are of those and you can argue with those in court. There was no recourse
back then. And so they left that, that place because it was difficult. Now, one thing I want to
say about that leaving because I have the I've looked up a lot of the things recently because I am
actually looking about citizenship in Italy one day. And one of the things that I looked at was the,
what is it when the ship has the list of people? What's that called? Manifest. Manifest. Thank
you. So I looked at the ship manifest and I see how many brothers and sisters my grandfather was
coming with as a two year old. And he was coming with a lot and there were multiple, there were multiple
journeys from Sicily to, I think it was New York, to get everybody on in just his immediate family
over. So it was a big family. There were cousins. Everybody was coming over. They all end up in
Chicago first to meet the other part of the family that had moved there a few years before. So the
bunch of Italians there and what's going on is effectively they have no job there, which is why
they were going to the U.S. But that didn't stop them from having five, six, seven children. Isn't
that, I mean, think about the difference of mindset to say, Hey, sweetie, you know what, this
is getting real bad. I know we've had four children. I know I still don't have a job. Yeah, I'm
terrified by that. We're having a new one right now. What a terrifying thought, you know, but to
your point, but to your point early about culture, that was baked into the culture. That was in the
culture. There was no questions, right? For a lot of reasons stuff. We understand the things we
don't. We don't. My European background, I think in the last episode I said Spanish cousins. So I
appreciate for sure. My Spanish family comes from a rural area of Spain also probably pretty
specific. But they also had that culture, which is like, yeah, man, my mom, even my mom used to tell me
it's stuff about like, well, people just expected they're like some of the kids to die. And it's not,
it's not, it's not really not long ago. No. And so like, and it's rural, right? Like each new like
person is a mouth to feed, but like it's also like another person that will help bring something to
the house. Like a productive member of the family that is loyal to only you, which is the loyalty you
need. I mean, also mafia too, right? Speaking of the mafia, but yeah, so it's one of those things
where like, yeah, people had these kids, they don't conceive of it like we do, which is like, Oh,
like a kid is a person I'm going to have to support. I'm going to have to like get a college fund for not
to open the Trump account for them. Absolutely. A thousand bucks, great charge. Yeah. We think a lot
of this. We overthink as now as modern humans in our 100 something years later, we are massive over
thinkers. We are massively more anxiety. I think we're probably more anxious. And the we, when you
say we, I know who you're talking about. Yeah. You don't mean everyone, right? I mean, we come from a
very specific. Maybe a demographic, right? So like, yeah, yeah. Cause I have family. I have
in-laws in Central America who do not do that. Well, no, I mean, I guess you're right. I'm talking
to the context of like a U S based context, right? Little class mid four. Right. Right. Exactly. I do
think we do. I do think that because of social media and the internet, and you can see these trends
where this is a good, you know, you've seen the first scene from Idiocracy, right? Where you
have, um, you've seen that movie, of course. Yeah, of course I have. I love it. Why would I guess? Why
would I assume not? So anyway, that first scene, um, of the, of the just to be, just, uh, the position
of these, the couple who's wealthy, smart, highly educated compared to the ones that are not, that
was basically my family was the, the non-educated ones. They have tons of kids. They have no plan. No
plan. Yep. And they're like, Hey, there's a plan. Let's go to the U S. I hear that's a great place.
Everyone else is going and they get on a ship. Unplanned. They get on a ship with it with a baby and
on there for a month. And I remember one of the stories was of course that my grandfather almost
died on that ship because of some cold he caught or whatever, bacterial infection or whatever. It
was a bit, it was a treacherous. I'm sure it was a treacherous time for, for that. There's a
gazillion people on there giving each other diseases and they, and so he makes it and survives
thankfully. And, and yet I'm scared. I was terrified to have a baby number one at 30, at the age
of 39 years old. So it kind of just shows where we are. We're, we are in a place now where we're so
careful and so thoughtful. And there's so much information now. Don't do this and don't do that.
And don't, don't go outside and, and don't be careful of this and careful of that. And so we're
very educated to be careful of everything, but the problem is we're so careful that what was before
like, Oh, I've, I got a job flipping burgers or I got a job at a, as a cook. And I have six kids to support,
which is probably, this was basically his life at the time. The father's life. When he lost his job,
which was fairly often and a low paid job to begin with, it was like, Oh, just another day. I'll go
find another one. And maybe I won't. And there's no welfare. When we even see the possibility as
highly educated people of losing the job and it's coming down the horizon, we are more terrified
than that guy was that my great, my grandfather's father. So how can we learn? I guess the question
would be, how can we learn to take that wisdom of just letting go a little bit and leaning in and
surrendering? I would guess that would be kind of my word is can we surrender to the unknown a little
bit? Yeah. Like they kind of did back then because they didn't have a choice. And can we not be so
careful that we just don't think it's all going to work out because the truth is this and you're
asking like, what do I think about your situation knowing you? The truth is I'm not at all worried
about you personally because I know what you've done. I know what you studied. I know your
interests. I know you're like a Renaissance man in many ways. You have really dynamic interests in
terms of careers already that you worked in different different worlds and and you have
Chlamydia. It's very Renaissance disease. That's right. Lice. You have a lot of those going
forward. But I mean, if you think about, if you think about you and what you have and some of the
moats that you've built that you may not even be thinking about right now, but I can think of a few
moats. What does it mean? Moat? Moating like a, no, I mean, just like a moat around a castle, right? So
you have a moat around some of your skills. That was like a like an STI reference. Like, oh, no, no, no,
no, no, I got my toilet seat. That's right. That's where babe. That's right. But you have a lot of
moats. I think people could not just easily replicate that you could take around the world,
apply to different organizations, apply to different, I mean, there's got to be a tons of other
folks that are doing work for the for the government or the military that you probably
would be fine in. And there's all these interesting things that you could do. I think the
question is not, can you be okay? The question is, can you, can you shift this perspective from
terror of the unknown to excitement of the unknown? And that's not to say that that, it's not
to say, Hey, it's so easy. Why don't you do it? I'm actually, I deal with the same exact thing as
entrepreneur. I have found a few businesses that have some moats that I'm that have kept me
sustained. And one of them right now is, is turning into a dry creek. So the mode is, is drying up. And
that's in the software world. It's clearing up a penicillin. Let me ask you, so to continue my, your
very generous time, give me a message and so on. And I'm going to start with a therapy session. So let me
ask you, right? Like, we can talk offline about specifics, but let me ask you, like, okay, so one of
the thoughts that I have, right? And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this thought is, okay, so I
feel like what I do, I do very well. And I feel like I've kind of quote unquote earned my place in what I
do. And I've earned this position. Yeah, there's a people can probably do what I do. But like, I feel
uniquely qualified to a certain extent. Unique is a binary thing. Either there is or isn't. That's
the whole point of the word. You can't be very unique. But I do feel like I have a unique set of
skills and background. Leslie Neilsson, Leslie Neilsson. What's that Irish guy? You know what,
I'm going on in tangent from the taken style, taken style. The comedian. Well, he's Irish. He's
getting into more comedy. Like the two guns or whatever, naked gun. You're talking about that.
Well, he's in a naked gun series actually. Is he? No, no, no. The Nielsen guy from the white hair guy
from the naked gun. This is a tangent. This is a tangent. What's going on? So, I think Neilsson was
an actor who has passed away. Leslie Nielsen. He did a show called police squad and then he did a
movie based on that called the naked gun. Three of those. So the press. The movie foundational to who
I am as a person for better or for worse. There is currently an Irish actor named Leslie Nielsen.
No. This is why I was confused. I was like, you are confusing people, but you must know what you're
talking about. What's the name of that Irish actor from the movie taken? Uh-oh. He's not talking
about it. He's, he's decided, he's checked out. Well, first of all, how dare you gender? What is the
name of the Irish actor from the movie taken? That's Liam Neeson. Liam Neeson. Liam Neeson. Oh,
okay. I thought it was like a young guy. They're doing another naked gun movie and he is the son of
Leslie Nielsen. Right. Just one critique I've been seeing in the movie, the volunteer in the
trailer is not helpful. Leslie Nielsen, Liam Neeson. Yeah. Not helpful at all. Is that why you
think they gave him the job? I hope not because he doesn't, he doesn't occur to me as that funny of a
guy. I'm not, I will be curious. You say that, but remember, did you see his cameo in Ted? No, I've
seen him a few things where I thought he actually was funny. He bought the box of, what's the series,
the thing about tricks are for kids. He bought a box of tricks and he goes up to the cash register and
he's like, can I buy this? I'm not good at a Irish actor. And then Ted is the cashier. He goes, yeah,
I'm going to buy this box of series. He's like, okay, now it's important for you to know that I am
not a kid. Yes, I see. I can see that. Okay. But it says tricks are for kids. Yeah. I think that's more
of like a marketing slogan. Okay. So I can buy it. I can leave with this box. That kind of, I mean, I'm
doing a dry, I think it's because he's so, he's known to be so serious. When you see him in a
different world. Yeah. That would be fun. It works. Yeah. You can pull it off. So I'm very much
looking forward to this. It'll be a very dead pan. But that was also because you, these are
fundamental to your personality. That's probably why you're also looking forward to that.
100%. You know, I like the pink panther going up, but I did not like Steve Martin's repeat of that
movie. It was a disaster. I did not see that. I'm glad I didn't see that. Terrible. Terrible. I used
to, I also grew up on that. Well, anyway, the point is that I do feel like I have unique skills that I
think earn me my pride of place. I'm very proud of where I am and the work I do. However, things like
this kind of recent instability that I see over there kind of spooks me that could happen over
here. And then I think to myself, oh my God, what if it's all a farce, right? And this is part of like a, I
figure out what that's called imposter syndrome. Maybe I'm not qualified because I remember every
time I've switched, I switched careers a couple of times and I switched jobs a bunch of times. And
every time it feels like maybe I'm not special, maybe I can't get a job. And the older you get, the
more it feels that way. The kind of career paths feel like they got cut off. And I think that I say
feel like because I don't want to give it credence that is true. But yeah, I feel like, oh man, if I lose
this job, it's kind of too late for me to just find something in the same narrative. And I've kind of
worked myself into what I feel like is a niche space that maybe just feels that way. What do you think?
Well, I think we, I think this is a very interesting question that we should all look at. So what I've
noticed with myself is that I oscillate between these two extremes quite often. Between I'm
unique, I'm special, I'm good at the XYZ on one end of the pendulum swings to one end and then the other
other end, it's, I'm a farce. I'm a fraud. I'm nobody. Who am I? And you take, in the mind, we'll
take whatever evidence of the day, it's like a dish of the day and provide you, it'll take these little
clues and then make, you know, one day I'll feel great about my business. And within that same day,
I'll feel like it's all falling apart. And this is how quick the oscillation goes. And I was just
thinking the other day how we always are looking the mind, the ego, I'll say the ego because I think
that that's a big part of a lot of this is that the ego is fairly not real. We're not even, I'll put, I'll
post whatever, postulate that we are not actually, we're just kind of made up in some ways.
We're kind of just like this temporary glob of consciousness. We can call it an ego is
conditioned. It's all that stuff. And as that entity that's grown up, we think it's a real, we
think that we are we, we are, this is a real thing. I'm, that I'm K. And what I tend to notice is that I'm
grasping on that ego is grasping on for an identity. And once it finds one, it's holding on
for dear life. So one example for me was when I graduated back in the early 2000s in the yachts, I
had a business degree. And I could see the right on the wall that I got an like an internship. I
remember before I graduated and I thought, and it was at like Coles basically, and it was just like a
worse job ever. And I thought, this is, they were like, okay, you know, you could have a great career
here doing retail management. And I thought, this is a sucky job. I can see it. I'm going to make no
money. And I couldn't see though, I could see myself getting pigeonholed in that world. And I
was like, I gotta find something else to do. So I went back and did a postgraduate degree in
technology. Now, that postgraduate degree was good. It gave me a lot more opportunity because
there were too many people basically like the early 2000s, there were too many graduates of
college. Let's just say that it was sort of like peak college of graduation. Everyone was going to
college. Is that true? Do you think I've heard that? Yeah, it was like, that was mass. There was a
massive amounts of now that I could be wrong. There may be, maybe the peak actually came later. But I
know that the culture at the time was that if you weren't going to college, this was the time where
everyone was like, you've got to go to college. Everyone who goes to college succeeds and
everyone who doesn't flips burgers. I had the same perception. Everyone kind of did. Now, if I had
actually been smart, I might have said, well, I can be a plumber. I'll go against the grain. I'll
probably be a millionaire right now. But you'll be way off. More jump-stery too. Exactly. So, but
it's interesting how like that was what I was going to at the time. Now, I got a general technology
degree, like an IT, but when I graduated, I realized that I wasn't as skilled as a programmer.
So there's a distinction between someone who can figure out software and someone who could write
software. And so I thought, oh, I need to learn how to write software. And I had this existential
crisis all the time where I'd be like, I would help a client with a software issue or a software
product. And then I'd be like, but I can't write it. So I'm not very good. I'm a fraud, really. Right.
Unless I can learn how to write the software, I'm a fraud. That was sort of the overarching thing. So
instead of questioning whether that's true or not, I decided to just learn how to write software.
I became a programmer. So I took about three years and I learned how to write programming, become a
programmer. And I taught myself. Why are you working or after you graduate? This is after I
graduated and while I was working. And so I thought the promise was once I learn at a program, then I'll
be safe because I'll have this ultimate skill that is so hard to crack. It's so hard to protect. It's a
big mode around me and I'll finally be safe and I can finally relax. What was I looking for in all this? I
was looking for that feeling of peace. But I believe that the way to get there was to give me,
yeah, I need a secure job. And all this, it's like this long, you know, simple machine to get to this
one outcome of peace. Now, could I have just felt peaceful? Probably yes. I could have just taken
the shortcut and just been like, oh, how do I actually just feel peaceful? But I decided to go
through this long route. Now, what's interesting to me about this whole story is that in the last
three years, up until the last three years, I felt like this actually was true, that I had this
protection and security by being a programmer. And then AI was released into the wild in 2022, I
guess. And suddenly it was terror for me. It was like, oh my God, this is going, this is coming for my
moat. I just worked so hard. I spent the last 10 years perfecting and becoming a better and better
programmer. I'm finally protected now. And now this thing is coming into bulldoze that whole
dream. And it's like, I got, I mean, so I'm back at the place where it's like, I got nothing. I got
nothing special about me now. And so it's either at this point in my life where I can either choose to
embrace this uncertainty and this unknown and just say, hey, I actually don't know who I am. And I
may just have to get comfortable with that. I don't know how I'm, and I have no protection. I'm not
secure. Or I can go chase another 10 or 15 years and try to find the next moat and then have that knocked
out. So I do think there's a choice here that I have to make. And it's not to say that I've made that
choice, but it's daily I make trying to make that choice and to say, you know what? Can I just kind of
lean in to the unknown and to the fear? Or do I need to tell myself some full false story that will make me
feel better about myself? But it's actually not true anyway. You know, That's exactly where I am
right now. I think is that like, yeah, I feel like I built up this unique set of skills to kind of make.
So, but it's funny, even as we're talking right now, I'm just realizing. So before I had a job I have
now, I worked at a manufacturing firm, which is a whole different situation and making stuff
that's really in touch. And I may, I worked at a manufacturing firm in Southern California as
first as a salesperson, supporting customers, also selling stuff with the nose. So like as a
business development person. And I remember at the time that like that particular company did not
have an international salesperson. And that's how I came in. I'm like, well, hey, I speak other
languages. I'm comfortable traveling overseas. And it was a company just full of like, I don't think
the average American doesn't speak any other languages. That's not a judgment. That's just, I
think that's just how, why would you if you don't need to, right? It's like, you know, it's like
learning how to juggle unless it's like, unless it's like, unless there's a reason to do it. So it's
like, okay, fine. So I speak these other languages. And then I'm comfortable traveling,
which is his own skill set. Like, hey, can you go to like, I don't know, Puebla, Mexico next week and
talk to this distributor and get them to sell our stuff. Well, that requires a specific set of
skills and knowledge. They would not have sent me. Well, they could have. You'd figure it out. Well,
anyway, so, so to me, that to me, I created the role I was in, which is like, it's really good feeling.
And then I created a different role, which is in a management role in the sales area. And so when I did
leave that company, I knew they were kind of like, I knew they were going to have a hole for a while.
Because the job I was doing that I created really could have been a career. And they would have to
find two or three people to do what I was doing, not new people necessarily. You have to hire a new
person that has a specific knowledge and travel skills of like languages. And they'd probably
break up the other parts of my job and hand those out to other people who, you know, time and space is
finite. So those people get this extra jobs. Well, they're going to be doing something. They're not
going to be doing something else that they were doing before they got those jobs. Right. And so
like when I left that job, I'm like, yeah, I left. And I'm like, damn right. But if I get fired and I've
been laid off before, but like I told you that the last time I got laid off, I was a relatively new at
working. So I just felt like this is exciting. Right. And I, you know, just just talking about
this, I do remember there was a time I had ended. I had ended most romantic relationships I've been
in. But there was one time where someone dumped me. Yeah. And it was the first time it ever happened.
And it was devastating. And it's not about that person at all. You know, I don't even think about
that person anymore. But at the time it was devastating. And I've come to realize it. There
was a lot going on there about me. Nothing to do with the other person. There's so many people out there
you can be with. So it'd be interesting to apply that because I think that's how a monogamous thick
relationship ends up becoming this thing where you think, hey, I'm slotted in pretty good here.
That's not a sexual pun. I know that's how you took it, K. It wasn't. Oh, sorry. I missed it too. It
went over my head. I didn't even catch it. I'm slotted in pretty good. Didn't even think about
the sexual side of it. No, did I? But I thought you did. So I was going to be discussing it. Yeah, you
said, yeah. Good. Good. And we're on the same page. Anyway, I thought I was stuck in there pretty good.
And you can't replace me. You love me. Yeah. That's how I feel about my job, right? You can't, a guy,
look, this is a pretty secure. And just looking at your relationship, you get secure, you get
complacent, maybe, then you become afraid of losing that relationship. Yeah. And then God
forbid it ends not on your terms, not because of something you decided that it is devastating. And
that's kind of as I think about it. And right now I'm talking, that's how I feel about this. Yes. Losing
this job. I'm slotted in. They can't replace me. Look at all these things I can do. Well, there's
probably someone else that can do it. And they might prefer that the other person do it, which is
kind of basically what happened in the relationship that ended. And I made my peace with
that. And actually, you know what? It made me a better person. And I found a partner that just
across the board works way better on all the other little issues, but also on the feeling on
everything. My wife right now, I bought all the relationships that ended before I met my wife
ended so I could meet my wife. Right. And so to me it's kind of like, wow, thank God. And that's how I
feel about my current job. But if the job ends too, well, okay. Then now, then yeah, you're right. I
can go find another one. It's just, it's just terrifying because it's always feel like that's
going to feel like the feeling of security. It's, it tells us that we are who we think we are. And that
is, and so it's very disturbing to think otherwise. But I think you're right. I think this
all ties back to the ego. I'm with you 50% on this stuff. I know that you had like a background in
Buddhism in that you kind of followed it and really kind of were, they defined as a Buddhist for a long
time and now it's kind of opened up. No, I never was defined as a Buddhist actually. I'm a civilian
member. I would never do that. I was your question. I was involved. I was interested by, but I, but I'm
too, um, my discipline coward is so flaky. I'm such a flaky person. I never made a very particularly
good Buddhist. I was like, uh, I have to wait, wait, go what time? Yeah, meditate. How many times a day?
I can't eat what? Yeah. Isn't it true that maybe I just like to tell people like you, I was a Buddhist
back in the day because it felt, it was giving me more of a, you know, like puffing myself up. I mean,
that's what I, but maybe I was bragging about. But why is that? Why is that a flex in the circle? Yeah,
good question. I mentioned we walk in. Right. I should have told you I was a hunter and that would
have been a little better. Yeah. I kill my own meat. Yeah. The Jorogan strain of like, that's right.
Yes. I mean, it's not hunting and missing catacombs. I'm like some independent. It's those
millions of dollars that do that. That helps. That's what I'm, that's what I'm sure to buy a
compound bow when you're poor or is it? I don't know. You know what? Actually, I can find at the
pawn shop. I know very little about either one. Yeah. So compound bow in your hand is yours because
it's that's a good point. Is that what people who shoot arrows call it? It's called shooting. I
don't know. These are great questions. If you're a listener and you know the answer to these
questions, please send us an email. We'd love to hear. I got it. You know, I've been wanting to ask
several questions and I've been, I think pretty disciplined about not doing it. I'm going to do
this one. You tell us that. Yeah. What does an archer call it when they shoot an arrow? Do they
call it shooting? What would an archer call that? Archers don't say shooting when they release an
arrow. They usually say loose or release instead. Yeah. No, my car. Come on. Anyway, you get the
compound bow in your hand. You can shoot the guy. Release the guy. No. Does that sound better to you?
Sorry. Archers, you know, flame me in the comments, but I refuse to say that I'm going to go
grab a compound bow and then release a guy. Peewee Herman. I have to say the word Peewee Herman right
now so that I remember to go back and clean up the edit out the, the almost name that I called you.
Anyway, I'm throwing that in there so I remember to actually find, find the place. All right. Okay. So
one thing I was going to say, however, was that I was going to tell you a little story about my friend
Steve, who I've mentioned on the spot. I'll probably continue to mention many times. I guess I
say this. I do know there was another topic you had, but actually, I'm running out of time. Me too. All
right. So I'll say the, I'll say this story before we. I love Steve stories. If anyone is listening
that is not me or you or my wife, Steve is this person and I, you know, I don't know how much of the Steve
character we can flesh out and still maintain your anonymity. I think we probably go pretty far away.
He knows so many people that I think knowing him doesn't help you identify you at all. I know of him.
Yeah. But I love these stories and I've only met him very briefly and at the time I remember and being
him. I don't know. I don't know how I'm going to do. I'm pretty happy. But for a while though, I did envy
him. So I love these Steve stories. Oh good. I have another friend that also knows him and we, we call,
we created a verb called Steven when something, but by the way, I'm pretty sure this is how
Christianity started. Oh yeah. Well, I got a story about Jesus. Oh, I want to hear it. Oh, Jesus is
pretty hard that time that you were being nice to those kids. My favorite Steve story, which I'll
quickly say is that there was one time he told me, this is when I was living in LA and he said, I had a
great night last night, great, great date last night. I was, I met this woman at a bar and she was,
she said, do you want to go ride horses with me? She was like a rider. And so we're riding through the,
like in the North Valley, like Northridge or something. I was like, where in the hell were you?
Maybe see me Valley. She's like, she took me up to this table and we got on horses. We were riding
through the creeks and there was water splashing. And I'm like, wow. So I said, how romantic. And then
she's like, yeah, she took me back to it. Yeah. He's like, she took me back to her place and she, we had
amazing sex. It was just incredible. And I said, wow. And then bedded him. Yeah. And I thought what a
beautiful story I was like, so are you going to see her again? I mean, this sounds so hard. She was
like, oh no, she was absolutely just super ugly. Of course I would never see her again. Okay. And so I
was like, she's like, oh, she was one of the ugliest women I've ever, I've met. So my story went from one
like fairy tales version where this beautiful, you know, Vixen is taking him through the magical.
Kate Blanchett, right. To all. Yes. Exactly. Slightly managed, but in a very attractive
straight. Yes. Exactly. He just happened to forget that part of the story as he was telling it
that she was not. I also went through this little. A trip that you just probably went through, which is
at first you're envying him. You're like, yeah, exactly. There are any horse riding women. I no
longer envy him for the woman stuff because I am deeply satisfied. I'm not just saying that
because I think my wife listens to this. That's true. Sure. Is, but I could see how a man would
listen to him and be like, oh, I was a young man with a single at the time. But then he does that thing at
the end where you're like, but she's hanging as bro. And you're like, oh, okay. Well, okay. I'm
still kind of jealous though. It balances it out. It makes, you know, it would make an, I think an
average man be less jealous. However, it would still, it still makes him seem cool though at the
same time. Yeah. I mean, and maybe he was downplaying her beauty. Anyway, so the other
story that I think is more related though is what he, yeah, probably not knowing. He would do that. I
thought that if he could be honest with him to report that last detail, I think he thinks he's
sacrificing you looking at him for being able to, and I know, you know, hey, we can have an argument
about why as a man, a lot of men think that having sex with a good looking woman increases your, at least
your social value with none of the perceived values. We could talk about why that is, but you
cannot argue that that is not, that is definitely a perception that is definitely something that
happens. If you talk to guys, that's a thing that kind of rears its head. So the fact that he would
give up scoring points in that area in order to score points in the, but look how interesting I am
area. Yeah. By saying that it makes him slightly more interesting. Absolutely. That he was even
game for the whole thing. Having sex with like this androgynous alien that has like a checklist form.
Exactly. It's kind of like, oh, but that makes you cool. But it was exciting. Yeah. Anyway, his, the
story that's related to, to what you were saying was when he lost his job. Yeah, that was a free react
through in there. He lost his job of 10 years. He was, he had the most miserable job. He was cold
calling for, to sell corporate telecom service in an age where no one even like was using phones
anymore. People are moving to the internet at this time. So this was like an already archaic business
and he would get on the phone, you know, in his British accident and call random companies and
try and just all day. And the, the way he would describe this job was like misery. I mean, my God,
like every time I saw him, he was like, I hate this job and I hate, oh, his boss, he hated his boss so
much. The boss was like, his, he didn't like, and you know, Steve, if you're listening, you know, he
didn't have a great relationship with his father. And this, and he would often tell me that this man,
there was no one on earth that reminded him more of his father. Oh, he's got a lot of layers, man. But he
stayed with his guy for eight years or something. And basically kept this terrible job going. Now
one day, 10 years, man, he wants more than anything in life. He wants this job to end, but he never has
the courage to, to end it himself. So one day he gets a call and the guy says, you're fired, Steve, we
can't afford you anymore. And you're like, I don't know if he said personal things if he wasn't doing
his performance or whatever, but it wouldn't surprise me. And he was devastated, like you said,
absolutely devastated. And he's so depressed. He goes to Santa Monica and meets up with a friend, an
old friend, I think, and she had just come back from like this seminar. And she said, well, let's,
let's look at your thoughts. What are you, what are you worried about with this job? Losing your job?
Cause you told me how much you hate this job. And so they did this, this thing, I'll call it, you know,
I'll just mention it's called the work where would you turn it over? Oh yeah, Katie Byron, right? In
what ways is this a great thing? Exactly. In what ways is that not true? Yeah, I love that stuff. She
had just come from a Byron Katie workshop and she said, well, let me do this with you. And it went from
I'm, I'm, uh, I'm terror, I'm so depressed or whatever. I don't have this job to I'm, I'm
thrilled. I don't have this job and I'm so grateful. Like he literally shifted his
consciousness. It wasn't just telling himself this. He just really saw it like, oh my God, I've
been freed. I'm so free now. And this is what I've actually wanted the whole time. And so instead of
it looking like I was fired, what it looked like was the universal whatever gave me exactly what I
asked for. And that shift of framing broke the spell of the devastation of being or the, of the
part of where you're like, I've been rejected. It broke that spell of being rejected because it was
actually this fate, this higher, you know, hand of fate coming in to help you out. And, uh, I've always
thought about that because that was the moment he decided to get up and move, uh, off to China and he's
been there ever since. And he's, I've never, oh yeah, he's been there for 12 years and he's never
been happier. I've been opinion about that. We'll talk about that later. And he's never, I've not
heard him complain about life the same way he was when he was in LA. He is never like I in China. If
you're tall and even kind of just a little bit good looking, which he is. Hey, Steve. Yeah. Looking
guy. Yeah. But like, yeah, man, like China is a good place to be that guy. And he was not in Beijing or,
um, Shanghai was never much smaller. Right. No competition. No competition. Right. Yeah. Not,
not fair. It's like dropping a Jaguar and Jaguar is going to be eaten tortoise every single day until
it's fat and happy and married. Anyway, uh, a couple of thoughts really quick. So first I want
you to remind me about this conversation. If I get laid off. Cause this Byron, I'll send you the
episode. The Byron Katie thing will be very important. Oh yeah. I'm going to need you to walk me
through that. That's good. We can do it as a live episode if you want. Oh shit. You're recording.
That's exciting. Now I have something to record too. So the other thing I want to mention is that you
did not ask me about and this stuff I said last week, if I had done all of this stuff. And the third thing I
want to mention is why Peewee Herman, why is that your phrase to the back of time? Is it because it's
memorable? Yes. Because of all of the like onanism references they keep making about releasing, et
cetera. Maybe I thought I was going to mention. Do I remind you? Either your real name or my name. And
then I thought I can't mention our names. Even if, even if I'm going to delete it, just to be safe, I
should mention someone else's name. Whose name should I mention? What's a memorable name? Oh, and
I don't know why Peewee Herman could. But I just saw a reel of him recently where he was talking about,
Oh wow, okay. This is before he died. He was talking about being invited to a bunch of like high school
parties and they be like, is Peewee Herman going to come to our rave? And he'd show up at these like
raves that only have like 20 people and he was, he was talking, it seems to kind of like a cool guy. I
was like, yeah, I like him. Yeah, he was in a Cheech and Cheong movie. I heard him when I was a kid. Also,
he, there's a documentary about him, I think. I haven't seen it. He's doing a talk show, so it does
probably why he's kind of popped up. Also, if it's something you recently saw, I'm really glad the
last thing you didn't see was like, I don't know, Schindler's list or something. Anyway, I'm
sorry, we'll get rid of that later. Hitler, Hitler, Hitler. Although he was not in that movie.
He was not in that one. Famously. Famously, yeah, didn't make it. Oscar Schindler, Oscar
Schindler, Oscar Schindler. I'm sorry, you know what? I am joking. And, you know, it's really easy
to joke around. It's easy to joke around about stuff that you do not take personally. Right? Like
if someone joked around about something that I just take very personally, it's very close to my
identity. I would probably be offended or at their best case scenario, just not think it's funny. And
I've heard plenty of jokes like that. And, you know, here I am joking about Woodward too and some
very terrible things. So if someone is listening and that's a very triggering or that hurts you very
much, I apologize. It's not meant to. Put it in the comments. Put it. Put it at much your angry in the
comments. Don't do that. And people, people make fun of stuff and I've seen stuff where they make
kind of like conditions people have and I don't have the conditions. So I don't find that. But then
I'm just trying to get some more views though. So feel free to give us a little. I embrace. Tell us. I
am very forced historical figures. Right. To include. And this is not an exhaustive list. There
you go. Popeye. If you don't know all the very problematic things about Popeye, Google it and
then you'll see it's the worst. Oh, okay. Oh, oh my God. I'll let people. I don't want to. I don't want
to get banned from YouTube. We're talking too much about Popeye. Yeah, don't. Don't get banned. Like
racial and ethnic hatred things that are popped up. I mean, just Google it for yourself. Google
Popeye. Okay. Racial hatred. Wow. Uncle Tom question mark. Wow. All right. You kind of thrown a
little grenade into the. Into. It's terrible as a historical figure. He's based on a real person
anyway. I don't want to get banned for that. I think we would be. It sounds educational. This is very
controversial. This will end up on a dark web. The way we're going. All this stuff. Yeah. Anyway, the
point is that you did not ask me to follow up on my anxiety stuff and to answer your question. Last
week's. Should have a. Podcast made me put more stuff in my calendar and. Well, all right.
Calendar. Dang. My level of anxiety has not decreased because it should have increased and it
didn't. Good. I'm even luck going on right now. I'm a zepound. I have lost zero weight, but I could
have. I could have gained more weight if I wasn't on it. Nice. Very similar thing. Yeah. I talked to my
wife constantly and like, am I stressing out for no reason? And then I'll say, I bought a different
thing. Am I stressing out for no reason? She's going, oh, no, this is worth it. Okay, great. So I
have both brought my conscious and I've used my calendar more. Just a lot of the things that were on
my list of things to do. We ended up doing so anyway, I just want to have my listeners. Yeah. We're
thinking the same thing I was, which is like K didn't follow up at all. Probably because he
didn't put in the calendar. I didn't put in my calendar to follow up and I should have. I was
thinking we should have some sort of like. Like repeat, like we should have like a list of topics.
So we have to write stuff down. It might be, maybe we'll get there. Write that down, K. I'll
write that down to write that down for next time. That's great. You and I have a secret chat where we
talk about the podcast. That's right. That's right. And I think it's cute because it's on an
encrypted channel and it's separate from any personal conversations we have. Yeah. Exactly. I
don't like we need that. I don't know the specific reason why I just like it. Yeah. I agree. I think
it's a good, it's a good grounding base for topics that are related to the show go in there. And if you,
if you break that rule, you know, you can get what's coming to you. I'm going to put my vasectomy in
there. I recently had a vasectomy. You told us about it last time. But balls still hurt. I'm
sorry. I don't be offensive. My testicles still hurt. Yeah. Do they? And it's the area around the
testicles. I don't know if it's muscles or whatever. All the urologists out there can let us
know. Wait, hold on. This may be the last. The very sensitive area as many of us know. Before we leave.
Before we leave. What is it exactly that hurts so much down there for my vasectomy? It can't be just
the testicles, right? Is it like muscles? What's going on down there? What's up with the
discomfort? It's not uncommon to experience discomfort after a vasectomy, but it's not the
testicles themselves that hurt. The pain usually comes from the spermatic cord, which is the tube
that carries sperm. During the procedure, the cord is cut and sealed. And that area can be quite
sensitive for a while afterward. You might also have some muscle soreness or bruising in the area.
If the pain is severe or doesn't improve in the weeks, it's always best to check it. Wait, hold on.
What's the muscle soreness and bruising come from? The soreness and bruising you're
experiencing likely come from the surgical procedure itself. During a vasectomy, the doctor
makes a small incision in the scrotum to access the vas deferens. This can cause some trauma to the
surrounding tissues, leading to bruising and inflammation. But why? That doesn't make any
sense. If they only cut the scrotum, why would their muscles be involved? The scrotum is in the
muscle. Not like the brain. You're right. The scrotum isn't a muscle itself, but it does contain
muscles. What? No, I'm sorry. This is... I apologize. Mason. That should be an entire
episode. We should get a urologist down here and we can really ask these kind of questions. Dr.
Philadelphia, I'll call her. You know, it was a lady. It was a young lady as well. Yes. Late 20s. And
you know what? I walked into her office and I thought, oh no, like first of all, I wasn't like
tracking it was a woman. Yeah. Because I don't care. I just made the appointment in a place I could
do right away and it just says, doctor, whatever. So I wasn't thinking of ethnicity. I wasn't
thinking of gender. I just wanted a doctor who could do the second thing stuff. And then we went
into the consultation and then she just popped in and I'm like, oh, okay, well, she's young and then
she's a woman. And I thought like, okay. And then I immediately thought, oh, do I want this? And then
the second thing I thought was like, oh, no, no, that's like a bad thought. That's not very
inclusive. It's maybe unconscious bias that you're having, E, about having doubt. I now
in retrospect think that it was about more about getting my scrotum cut open in my last step and
being cauterized. I think that was more what the anxiety was coming from. But at the moment it felt
like I was being, you know, biased. And then in my head, and this all happened in like five seconds,
by the way. And the time it doesn't say, hello, doctor. I'm going to talk to myself. No, no, no, no,
E. First of all, it'd be embarrassing to just leave right now. Although I know people who would
and they're powerful, the powerful for being able to not care about being cauterized. Yeah. Yeah.
And so I thought like, well, I can't walk out now because I'm just going to have to let this, that
would be rude. Cut open my scrotum. It'd be rude. Oh, but did she, oh, so basically she did in the same
appointment. I see. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But you met her and then you did it that
day. And then go to another doctor. Well, I thought, I thought she meant she, you met her for
the first time and then she was like, well, let me get my knife. She said you did it separately. Okay,
good. I did. But so I had the consultation with her and I'm like, well, I can't do the consultation
with her and then not let her do the surgery. That's rude. And then I thought, oh man, is this because it
might look like a bad feminist that I even think you could be. Yeah. And then I decided that maybe, and
I'm so invested in me not being a misogynist or having a bias towards women. I literally thought,
you know what, we're going to do this to burnish my credentials. Wow. But like for whom though, who's
the audience for this? Yeah. Well, the feminists who are listening are probably applauding right
now. You still hear them. But they are. I would rather be in a lot of ball pain. Because you know,
the truth is, I suppose, thinking of myself as a bad feminist. A lot of men don't think that women
should be doctors, but you kind of broke that. You may have single-handedly broken that. Or they are
large potential. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I just had guys, but they could be women who
don't think women should be. That could be true. A very traditional woman. You're turning your
changing lives just right now. Just telling us. I will say this. And this is a great personal risk.
Last thing I'll say is that so that was a very good liberal feminist tolerant thing. I did. I was
like, no, man, we're going to do this because she's probably qualified. I say probably because I did
zero research. Yeah. Covered by my insurance is the research I did. There you go. Anyway, and it was
more about her being young than about her being old. Anyway, I did it anyway out of a combination of
laziness and self-hatred and judgment. And I did it anyway. But then later, after I was recovering,
I remember thinking like, oh, from a purely, like once again, I can't believe I keep having to like
qualify this. I'm a perfectly happy married person. I think my wife is an amazing sexy person.
And a bunch of other great stuff. It was mildly erotic. The situation was erotic. Of course. And I
don't mean that in like a surgical play because there's that too. There's surgical play
fetishism, which I would not judge. It's not my thing, but I wouldn't judge it. But there is kind of
like an erotic thing about this young, she's not good looking, but it's not different. It wouldn't
have made a difference. It's mildly erotic. I thought as I was recovering with a giant ice pack on
my balls. There was a doctor I saw on YouTube that was a very attractive young urologist talking
about vasectomies. And I remember thinking, I can see why this video is very popular. Okay. So
anyway, now did your pain change worse or better in the past time? Since last we heard about it. Oh, way
better. And now, once again, I don't want to share too much. There's two types of oversharing.
There's one that helps people identify who I am, which I'm not interested in. And then the other one
is like things that are just plainly, flatly disgusting to either anyone who's listening to
this or anyone who is listening to this. I'm sure by this time, the people who are finding this super
disgusting have already jumped off. Archery thing. Archery thing. Kind of put them over the
edge. That's far to the end. No pun intended, by the way. Yeah. So I will say this. We're now entering
not fully in, but entering the phase where the mild ball pain is. Oh, good. All right. Fantastic.
That's good. So you got, so I think the result is then you, you chose well and you were, you made a
good choice and you have. I did something good for my own family planning purposes, but for my wife,
because she does not have to be. Yes. What's the word sterilized? She doesn't have to. Correct.
Because I, you know, I do literally think it's the least I could do after all the shit she went
through. Exactly. So I feel like I did a little bit more of my work, end of the work. I feel and like I
scored a point for feminism. You absolutely, and you've changed a lot of minds as I was saying.
There's now people that think that women can be doctors. My perspective is already was not meant
to be polemic, but it is because of the way we live. I'm not afraid to be a champion. And it's also a self
benefit beyond the family planning aspects and the pat of the back I give myself. And now we are in a,
in, we're into the pleasurable ball pain area, which anyone out there, anyone out there who knows
what I'm talking about, they know what I'm talking about. And they know what you're doing. And so I'm
going to hurt that and say, like, what do you mean, pleasurable ball pain? Yeah, that's all the
category. I don't want you, but I'm talking about, and you may never experience it. Shame on you, by
the way, you know, exploring that part of the map. That's exciting. You know, when, and once again, I
don't want to be disgusting. You know what? I'm going to self censor because the next time I was
going to say, well, it's disgusting and very personal, but I think a lot of men, if I would have
said it, a lot of men would have been on the same page as me. All right. Well, on that note. And on that
note, if you would like to tell us about your experience with the Visectomy or any other topic
that we've discussed, please do put a comment. Yeah, give us a comment. Yeah, give us a comment.
You're a man and you're job, the terror of the shifting political landscape, whether you're
pro or con, by the way, no justice, you know, we want everyone to be able to be like, there are nuggets in
here for you. And for our vegetarian friends, correct. We want you to feel there's a lot of pods in
here for you. Yeah, like it, subscribe, leave a comment, give us a review and send us a fan letter in
the mail to Peelbox. One, one, one. Nice. Kentucky Summit. All right. Anyway, we'll talk next time. I
will try to remember to ask you about the things that you are listening. We'll check in with your
anxiety next time. Thank you. I appreciate that. And if you need, you know, we'll do a, we'll do a
little, the work session down the road. That would be interesting. Hopefully that will not be the
case though. And I don't expect that to be the case, by the way. Also, I think if you're a smart, if
you're a smart organization, you might say that it's kind of like, there's, it's not personal, but
you kind of, you kind of might have some biases and you probably would want to hold on to, to an E if
you're a smart organization. So I can agree with you more. And the last thing I'll say is just as a
personal integrity thing, we have mentioned this podcast is basically just a conversation you and I
would be having. Yeah, correct. And to bolster that point. And I feel like I want to say this is the
kind of a behind the scenes type of thing after we finish recording this podcast. I'm just going to
hang up and stop talking to you. Yeah, yeah. Let's do it. This is a conversation. This is a
conversation. We're not going to go offline and all that nonsense for we're done here. No, so until
next time. All right, K, thank you. We will see you. Thank you. Thank you for managing my name. All 1058 01:43:16,360 --> right, we'll talk to you next time. We are in. Thank you. All right, bye.